6.2 Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

It didn't get better though.

None of the cure potencies on the skills have changed, only the damage potencies.

Back to the topic, I have to chuckle at the odd choice of the voke buff. Makes me wonder how strong they made it, since aggro wise, it was already the equivalent of a 2000 potency attack.

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shake it off is a heal + shield.

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Originally Posted by Telvanni_Guard

Yeah, I'm not understanding that. In the job guide, at the bottom of the page, you can see their reasoning for it and it says that it was based on player feedback.

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not sure why they didn't do this for pitch perfect though
so strange

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Originally Posted by Denji

shake it off is a heal + shield.

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It still didn't get better though, it just applies the effect instantaneously to all party members now like veil does instead of the rapid-sequentially it currently does. The shield + heal is the same as before, only 0.2s faster.

Not really 'a buff to recovery' by any way, shape or form.

https://i.imgflip.com/6qtnqs.jpg

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

It still didn't get better though, it just applies the effect instantaneously to all party members now like veil does instead of the rapid-sequentially it currently does. The shield + heal is the same as before, only 0.2s faster.

Not really 'a buff to recovery' by any way, shape or form.

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that's... still an improvement. i'm not really sure what you're trying to prove or disprove at this point beyond shrinking and transforming into a corn cob.

Reverting Jump/Mirage to two buttons is disappointing. That was a useful merge and it meant I could have both those skills on the front page of the PS4 hotbar.

If you didn't like it you could just put the skill in two places – or just never delete the independent Mirage Dive button in the first place. It still worked.

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Originally Posted by Denji

that's... still an improvement. i'm not really sure what you're trying to prove or disprove at this point beyond shrinking and transforming into a corn cob.

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its a qol not a game changer to put WAR in your comp
like in SB when they made PLD wings and celestial op appear right away.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

its a qol not a game changer to put WAR in your comp
like in SB when they made PLD wings and celestial op appear right away.

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yeah, i know.

but looking at my previous post i don't recall claiming that the current patch improved our self-heal. all i said was that i keep expecting that aspect to be nerfed but the patches continue to just improve the job.

i'm still failing to see where in my post was wrong. a qol improvement of an aoe shield/heal is still an improvement of the war's healing repertory anyhow and arguments otherwise are just semantics.

PvE job changes: Some hmmm but overall okay. Grade then C+.

PvP job changes: WAR, WHM, AST changes overall okay to good. Rest highly questionable. MNK lb was too good, but RoE still unreliable. Chainsaw RNG is overall still a thing despite the mode stripping down RNG. No mention of PLD cover exploit in Onsal Hakair. No talk of reverting the ridiculous damage reduction changes from 6.18. Grade a huge F.

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Cultivate the land, or enjoy the slow life as your minions roam free─the choice is entirely up to you.

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Sounds like fun to me.

Good to see they're finally going back and adjusting (and presumably standardizing) mechanic markers in old dungeons/fights.

They still didn't fix PLD cheese for PvP :(

SE rework mch. If you thought drg rework was needed, oh boy, MCH is emergency.

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New items can now be obtained from quick exploration ventures.
New retainer exploration ventures have been added.

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Note to my retainers: ALL LEAVE IS CANCELLED. :cool::cool::cool:

Buffing WHM in PvP despite them being pretty dang strong already?

https://media.giphy.com/media/11PMIEfajGXhGE/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Denji

Wow, buffs across the board. I keep thinking war's recovery is gonna get nerfed at some point and yet it keeps improving.

... I'm not complaining, that helps so much in roulette with random healers who aren't, er, all that great let's say.

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Yeah, no. DRK didn't get a cure potency buff on Abyssal Drain, which WOULD have helped. It still only has a 200 cure potency (less than an enemy auto attack in terms of healing), despite being used only once a minute against groups of enemies since it shares a cooldown timer with Carve and Spit. So DRK will still have difficulties in dungeon pulls.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

>merge mirage dive
>revert it later
>no Kaiten
lol

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I don't even know why they reverted the mirage dive thing, I actually liked how it was, I didn't have to constantly swap sets just to use Mirage Dive (couldn't fit it on the main set).

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Buffing WHM in PvP despite them being pretty dang strong already?

https://media.giphy.com/media/11PMIEfajGXhGE/giphy.gif

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And also nerfing SCH's mitigation and damage down in PvP despite SCH being 100% dependent on the party. I question their logic.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Buffing WHM in PvP despite them being pretty dang strong already?

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The Miracle of Nature range decrease is pretty big but yeah.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I don't even know why they reverted the mirage dive thing, I actually liked how it was, I didn't have to constantly swap sets just to use Mirage Dive (couldn't fit it on the main set).

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They reverted it based on player feedback.
As of this patch, job changes are explained on the job guide page. Linked at the top of the job changes section of the patch notes.

does anyone know when the patch will be up for download?

Not yet, I just tried, time now 410pm Sydney.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Buffing WHM in PvP despite them being pretty dang strong already?

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From this update, it seems clear to me that they specifically buffed PvP WHM to be the "pure" healer - the job that actually has big healing numbers and is offensively capable. Cure II getting a 4k increase to 16k - so that's actually an 8k increase by having 2 charges. That's very significant.
They nerfed WHM's overall battle control (Miracle of Nature nerfed), but it won't matter too much since you can always Seraph Strike your way in. WHM is pretty much a Battle Angel at this point.

PvP SCH getting a nerf makes no sense in comparison since it weakens both their battlefield control theme and their pressure. They already lack healing output and Crowd Control effects, so this is a huge nerf for them.

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We have changed the card actions used by astrologian. The Spire's dependency on luck stood out to us, which is why we replaced its effect with a more straightforward card action. The Ewer, while effective, was only useful in certain situations, which is why we replaced it with a card that can be used in a variety of situations.

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??????????

Spire's dependency on Luck stood out, but that's what also made it great. In times where you're not directly in combat, you can draw it to speed up LB generation - giving your team the advantage in the long run. If you drew it in combat and the LB bar is almost full, it could directly tip the scales by giving LB earlier than when the opponent least expects it. It is a good card and fun to play around. It's very strong, but takes time for the effect to fully display itself. There is a value of rewards to drawing it and surviving long enough to utilize it. This is a gameplay design choice that makes AST fun in comparison.

Ewer IS always useful - as long as you were in combat, holding Ewer and even using Ewer will directly improve a party's survival because it gives every player more recuperation charges. Plus, both Regenerating MP and increasing LB generation feels very unique - which creates more dynamic gameplay for allies to take advantage of the toolkit. Replacing them for Bole feels very terrible in comparison since it's just a generic mitigation skill. Feels like homogenization and sharing a similar toolkit as the SCH (Expedient).
If anything, Bole would have even less effectiveness - because you wouldn't gain anything from using it out of combat. At least for Ewer, it can still improve MP recovery so players don't have to waste time standing still and using Elixir -- thereby increasing their overall time to go back into combat. That makes both Ewer and Spire always useful for both Frontlines and Crystalline Conflict. Ewer and spire gives a lot of time flexibility before, during, and after the fight. Unused MP is still MP that can be spent later. It's a great resource to use. Bole does not give any of that flexibility. This is inherently due to the design choice of limited healing charges, limited damage skills, but high yet unscripted damage due to low cooldowns and high potencies per maximum HP of a player (the exact opposite of PvE gameplay). Bole can be useful here, but it will never be as useful as an Ewer in terms of raw flexibility and effectiveness for this very reason.

In retrospect, AST's original effects were more ephemeral, but very impactful - which definitely separates its healer design choice from WHM, SCH, and SGE. Having AST be straightforward and revert to a more ShB-themed incarnation feels very lackluster in comparison since it looks more like a generic healer now...

Arrow is more of a mixed bag. For some fights, having Arrow is more useful (RPR Plentiful Harvest will now go on CD Faster), but at the same time, Arrow will definitely desynchronize the DPS toolkit to a certain extent and break job flow- which can be dramatically worse when using everything for buffs. I will have to try using Arrow out to see. Feels like a significant downgrade to both gameplay and lore for PvP AST though.

WHM getting buffed/SCH getting nerfed is precisely why they shouldn't rely on win/loss ratio as an accurate metric of how good a job is.

The more popular a job is the more likely it is to end up with a lower win/loss ratio because none of the jobs are good enough to carry someone who doesn't know what they're doing. On the flipside the unpopular jobs like SCH and RPR are much more likely to be played by people who do know what they're doing which would result in a higher average win/loss ratio.

Patch's up.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Patch's up.

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Patch size: 3736.17 MB.

I admit I liked how Dive Ready changed Jump/High Jump into Mirage on the same button. I guess back to how it was before.

"Sage
A barrier effect was added to Holos to both increase the amount of barrier protection that can be granted at any given time, and improve its overall utility for mitigating damage. The removal of enmity generation from Kardia’s healing effect will also help with the management of enmity in any given encounter. "

More shield ? Why ? O.O
And to make it more confusing : no Emity from Kardia ? When and where was this a problem ? I play Sage since release and never encountered any problems...

What is this feedback and from where do they take it ? Because this is weird.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

"Sage
A barrier effect was added to Holos to both increase the amount of barrier protection that can be granted at any given time, and improve its overall utility for mitigating damage. The removal of enmity generation from Kardia’s healing effect will also help with the management of enmity in any given encounter. "

More shield ? Why ? O.O
And to make it more confusing : no Emity from Kardia ? When and where was this a problem ? I play Sage since release and never encountered any problems...

What is this feedback and from where do they take it ? Because this is weird.

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That one is actually based on feedback

SGE is basically hard barred from DSR right now because deployment tactics makes SCH able to provide so much more mitigation that SGE can’t keep up

Now with this bonus Zoe+eukrasian prognosis+holos is about the same as a deployed adlo that only utilised protraction, it still favours SCH but SGE actually has some sort of answer to it

In all content besides DSR though it just makes double shield healer a far more desirable comp (even though double shield is already an incredibly strong comp)

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

They reverted it based on player feedback.
As of this patch, job changes are explained on the job guide page. Linked at the top of the job changes section of the patch notes.

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That player feedback was garbage.

Now I have to waste another controller button slot on it. And they complain about action bloat.

I am not sure but i did play Savage with a SCH+SGE and "hard barred" is a little bit off. I am not sure but even in Vamp daddy - there was nothing that warranted this much healing on SGE at all and with co healer awake there is nothing to worry. Healers are way too powerfull. Holos was good and is now way too good. I thought SGE has damage reduction + shields and SCH has only shields but the big ones, now SGE can match this shield. On the other hand light speed+neutral sect is still above and beyond and WHM dont get buffed to match it. Did i miss something ? But thats only my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

And to make it more confusing : no Emity from Kardia ? When and where was this a problem ? I play Sage since release and never encountered any problems...
What is this feedback and from where do they take it ? Because this is weird.

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They changed hot to not generate enmity and kardia is basically a hot.

Hmmm... so HoT's dont generate enmity ? Ok, weird but this makes tanking easier. Not sure if this is needed or they`maybe prepare to remove enmity completely ?

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

I am not sure but i did play Savage with a SCH+SGE and "hard barred" is a little bit off. I am not sure but even in Vamp daddy - there was nothing that warranted this much healing on SGE at all and with co healer awake there is nothing to worry. Healers are way too powerfull. Holos was good and is now way too good. I thought SGE has damage reduction + shields and SCH has only shields but the big ones, now SGE can match this shield. On the other hand light speed+neutral sect is still above and beyond and WHM dont get buffed to match it. Did i miss something ? But thats only my opinion.

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SGE is only barred from DSR because of how powerful deployment is as a shield since it stacks without diminishing returns on mitigation, in savage it’s totally fine

And SCH has more mitigation that SGE and stronger shields so SGE needs something to match it

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SGE is only barred from DSR because of how powerful deployment is as a shield since it stacks without diminishing returns on mitigation, in savage it’s totally fine

And SCH has more mitigation that SGE and stronger shields so SGE needs something to match it

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In my opinion SCH has too much and SGE, AST, WHM are the same way too much and no content to use it properly. So i am not sure but i think healers are completly easy mode for no good reason. But i think enough derailing. Thanks for the insights.

But regarding patch: i like the explantion section for the jobs. Good job SE.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Hmmm... so HoT's dont generate enmity ? Ok, weird but this makes tanking easier. Not sure if this is needed or they`maybe prepare to remove enmity completely ?

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If you want to be honest, it actually makes enmity management even more pointless for a tank.

Tank could actually use Regen enmity to their advantage to pull enemies outside their range once a group has been aggro'd -- A GNB can use Aurora to generate AOE Aggro, a WAR can use Equilibrium to AOE Aggro, A PLD can use Holy Sheltron to AOE Aggro.

SGE's can use Kardion's enmity to their advantage by pre-pulling an Eukrasian Diagnosis for themselves to ensure it breaks before hitting the tank while running right behind the tank - that way the tank will instantly be able to take aggro without a problem and they can get an additional addersting for Toxikon II (which does more damage in AoE than Dykrasia II). Now, you can basically only get one addersting per big pull if you don't want to lose DPS. Addersting also doesn't generate naturally, so this gauge gets used a lot less in dungeons. A big shame for the "DPS healer".

The only big good changes for enmity were Fairy Embrace and Seraphic Veil not generating aggro (QoL change). If all healers had their regens not generate aggro, it would be fine. Tanks losing enmity on regen ticks make enmity even worse if a DPS takes aggro and run away from the mobs. That's because their natural regens can't take the aggro back. All it really does is make it easier for pure healers to have Medica II /regen uptime... except we don't really use those skills at high levels because of all the other skills that can replace them. Overall, the QoL could have been done better.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

If you want to be honest, it actually makes enmity management even more pointless for a tank.

Tank could actually use Regen enmity to their advantage to pull enemies outside their range once a group has been aggro'd -- A GNB can use Aurora to generate AOE Aggro, a WAR can use Equilibrium to AOE Aggro, A PLD can use Holy Sheltron to AOE Aggro.

SGE's can use Kardion's enmity to their advantage by pre-pulling an Eukrasian Diagnosis for themselves to ensure it breaks before hitting the tank while running right behind the tank - that way the tank will instantly be able to take aggro without a problem and they can get an additional addersting for Toxikon II (which does more damage in AoE than Dykrasia II). Now, you can basically only get one addersting per big pull if you don't want to lose DPS. Addersting also doesn't generate naturally, so this gauge gets used a lot less in dungeons. A big shame for the "DPS healer".

The only big good changes for enmity were Fairy Embrace and Seraphic Veil not generating aggro (QoL change). If all healers had their regens not generate aggro, it would be fine. Tanks losing enmity on regen ticks make enmity even worse if a DPS takes aggro and run away from the mobs. That's because their natural regens can't take the aggro back. All it really does is make it easier for pure healers to have Medica II /regen uptime... except we don't really use those skills at high levels because of all the other skills that can replace them. Overall, the QoL could have been done better.

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THANK YOU, glad I'm not alone in thinking that they should have left Tank regen enmity alone.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Hmmm... so HoT's dont generate enmity ? Ok, weird but this makes tanking easier. Not sure if this is needed or they`maybe prepare to remove enmity completely ?

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That's my line of thinking. They may be paving the way for some enmity changes and this is the first step. Maybe not remove it, but change it so tanks need to do more to maintain it.

the aggro changes for regen are good but its a little annoying i cant use Aurora as a cute little aggro tool in dungeons now

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

That's my line of thinking. They may be paving the way for some enmity changes and this is the first step. Maybe not remove it, but change it so tanks need to do more to maintain it.

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If they are planning to make enmity harder again nothing since ShB launch and this change least of all shows they are even headed remotely in that direction

The patch notes mention new exploration missions for retainers (the 18h ones). There are no new ones.

Same here. The Easter Lord Errant's attire is the one genderlocked costume I've been waiting for since they unlocked a bunch of female-only glams and yet, nothing :/