Building a better Alphinaud

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I see my decision to place the above two posters on ignore proved to be the correct one. I appreciate the heads up from a friend letting me know that false, defamatory comments are being made and words are being twisted deceptively.

All I'll say on the matter is that I've never suggested that the development team deserve to be harassed.

Whatever weird issue certain posters have with me or my posts, please stop dragging it into every other thread and keep the conversation related to the actual subject of this thread - Alphinaud.

Thanks!

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Ik you have me blocked but who cares. It's sad you have spotters here lol. You have indeed said folks have the right to be antagonistic and make threats. If anyone cares to verify it they can look through your posts. I've said nothing defamatory about you. It's on this very site readily available to see.

You then turn tail and play victim while trying to NOW get back on topic. When you were here just like us talking about representation, your double standards with them and macho men. None of that had to do with the topic at hand. You aren't clean. Nobody past the first few pages is.
Hope your forum spotter let's you know what I said

Time to close the thread perhaps since it has spiralled from what it was originally about?

Regarding the topic; and this is just IMO; Alphie (my bro), Allie (my bro:a) and Urianger is the top-tier scions.

Y'shtola is fine, but thr shortcomings of her character are mostly saved by her comedic sass.
Remove the sass and what is there to like about her, really?

Thancred, Krile and G'raha Tia (he is great as the exarch after that not so much) are, meh. They are absolutely bottom tier.
I would not be mad if they left the scions/died or otherwise disappeared from the story.

My 5cents.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I see my decision to place the above two posters on ignore proved to be the correct one. I appreciate the heads up from a friend letting me know that false, defamatory comments are being made and words are being twisted deceptively.

All I'll say on the matter is that I've never suggested that the development team deserve to be harassed.

Whatever weird issue certain posters have with me or my posts, please stop dragging it into every other thread and keep the conversation related to the actual subject of this thread - Alphinaud.

Thanks!

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About time.

Now I can argue or refute your points without you trying to backpedal or play victim like so:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Whatever weird issue certain posters have with me or my posts, please stop dragging it into every other thread and keep the conversation related to the actual subject of this thread - Alphinaud.

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LOL, nope. YOU derailed the topic when you shifted the focus from Alphinaud to the same-old "Monarchies = unique / Democracies = not unique" argument.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

A shame such a vision isn't limited to Eorzea and is being projected onto Etheirys as a whole.

It strips away a lot of what makes each race and nation within the setting unique.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Ik you have me blocked but who cares. It's sad you have spotters here lol. You have indeed said folks have the right to be antagonistic and make threats. If anyone cares to verify it they can look through your posts. I've said nothing defamatory about you. It's on this very site readily available to see.

You then turn tail and play victim while trying to NOW get back on topic. When you were here just like us talking about representation, your double standards with them and macho men. None of that had to do with the topic at hand. You aren't clean. Nobody past the first few pages is.
Hope your forum spotter let's you know what I said

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Anyone posting on a forum consistently for years is naturally going to befriend some of the regulars - so, no, I don't have 'spotters' and the fact that multiple individuals immediately came to me asking if I was alright after seeing that horrid accusation should speak for itself, I think.

By all means, though, feel free to provide the evidence yourself. It's pretty sleazy to accuse someone of something they did not state or even insinuate.

Nor am I playing the victim - you're calling me out by name, spreading falsehoods and making defamatory comments. All of which is far removed from your supposed goal of preventing toxicity on the forum.

So I will ask again - please leave me alone and remain on topic. I really don't give a damn if you're tilted because I, as a gay guy, like and ask for masculine men in a video game.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

So I will ask again - please leave me alone and remain on topic. I really don't give a damn if you're tilted because I, as a gay guy, like and ask for masculine men in a video game.

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In this very thread, you dismissed adding more universal representation. Your argument positions LGBTQ characters or content as being mutually exclusive to adding masculine men. Therefore, you being a gay man (as you claim) is completely irrelevant, because your very argument fights against what you claim that you would desire in the game.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Anyone posting on a forum consistently for years is naturally going to befriend some of the regulars - so, no, I don't have 'spotters' and the fact that multiple individuals immediately came to me asking if I was alright after seeing that horrid accusation should speak for itself, I think.

By all means, though, feel free to provide the evidence yourself. It's pretty sleazy to accuse someone of something they did not state or even insinuate.

Nor am I playing the victim - you're calling me out by name, spreading falsehoods and making defamatory comments. All of which is far removed from your supposed goal of preventing toxicity on the forum.

So I will ask again - please leave me alone and remain on topic. I really don't give a damn if you're tilted because I, as a gay guy, like and ask for masculine men in a video game.

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First what does you being gay have to do with anything? Liking more masculine men is fine. But this is a topic about a minor so why is that even being discussed here? That isn't on topic which is something you NOW want to stay on after being challenged by folks here.

Second, nothing I said was "horrid" at all. You've called many people "feedback police" dude let's not lie here. And I'm not about to go back months to find you saying it's ok for folks to be antagonistic and throw threats because they're upset. Folks can either believe me or not, I'm not the only one who saw you say that. Lie to the rest here if you must, you won't be lying to me.

Nothing I've said here addressed to you has been toxic by any means. It's simply been calling out the things I see. You use that "card" any chance you get when you're challenged by me and it doesn't work outside of your friend circle. Give it a rest

As I thought. The supposed evidence does not exist, thus it cannot be brought to the table and thus deflection and misdirection is actively embraced instead.

At any rate, to get the thread back on topic...I do wonder if 6.2 will be when Alphinaud and Alisae step into the spotlight again. I'm less interested in seeing them and more invested in the idea of seeing more of Jullus and Manius.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As I thought. The supposed evidence does not exist, thus it cannot be brought to the table and thus deflection and misdirection is actively embraced instead

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I don't know what thread Ikara is speaking of, but there IS this one:

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's a pretty disingenuous tactic to point at a few isolated cases of people sending death threats and then trying to tie them to every bit of criticism sent in the direction of the development team. Incidentally, it's little different to the same sort of gaslighting and manipulation deployed by politicians and media personalities as if one or two extremists are every truly representative of an entire movement.

It's good to see a lot more people waking up in the face of such overused and very deceptive tactics, though. Especially when the death threats themselves are not taking place on this particular platform.

If nothing else, if people are sending death threats on Twitter then get in touch with the authorities. That's far more useful than trying to lecture people on a completely different platform as far as I'm concerned.

If you don't want to do it yourselves, then by all means link them here so somebody else can do as much.

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I highlighted that second part simply because it's ironic that you asked someone else to paste examples of the death threats they've received, but when others have asked you to do the same, you've stated you're scared of being banned for it.

None of which is arguing in favour of people sending the development team death threats. Interested onlookers can follow the post to see the full context - but my stance has been that it sucks that it is happening but people who aren't doing it don't need to be lectured or subtly or overtly implied to be party to it when they have no involvement.

I've also observed that the existence of some people going too far is often exploited by those who want to silence criticism towards the game - which is a trend I have observed with increasing frequency after Endwalker's decidedly mixed reaction.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

None of which is arguing in favour of people sending the development team death threats. Interested onlookers can follow the post to see the full context - but my stance has been that it sucks that it is happening but people who aren't doing it don't need to be lectured or subtly or overtly implied to be party to it when they have no involvement.

I've also observed that the existence of some people going too far is often exploited by those who want to silence criticism towards the game - which is a trend I have observed with increasing frequency after Endwalker's decidedly mixed reaction.

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You literally said that it's a good thing that people are "waking up" in the context of sending death threats, especially if those death threats are on Twitter.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

None of which is arguing in favour of people sending the development team death threats. Interested onlookers can follow the post to see the full context - but my stance has been that it sucks that it is happening but people who aren't doing it don't need to be lectured or subtly or overtly implied to be party to it when they have no involvement.

I've also observed that the existence of some people going too far is often exploited by those who want to silence criticism towards the game - which is a trend I have observed with increasing frequency after Endwalker's decidedly mixed reaction.

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Just an observation but you seem to have a strange understanding of the concepts of ignoring and derailing. I don't see why you continue to exacerbate the issue by replying, most especially if you don't like it.

Unless you are being outright Harassed and Stalked, I see no reason to block people, especially on a Videogame Forum.
If the 2 mentioned things aren't happening, then it just makes you look like you cant handle a conflicting/Opposite opinion to your own. And I find that cowardly.

Moving on...I do wonder if they intend to bring back Arenvald.
I dont know how well liked he was, but I thought he was cool, and he had the echo. Seems weird to completely write him out when he could have done & offered more to the group, even as a Lyse/Yda 2.0 where he was mainly muscle.
Seeing him in that wheelchair was a 'Feels-bad man'

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Unless you are being outright Harassed and Stalked, I see no reason to block people, especially on a Videogame Forum.
If the 2 mentioned things aren't happening, then it just makes you look like you cant handle a conflicting/Opposite opinion to your own. And I find that cowardly.

Moving on...I do wonder if they intend to bring back Arenvald.
I dont know how well liked he was, but I thought he was cool, and he had the echo. Seems weird to completely write him out when he could have done & offered more to the group, even as a Lyse/Yda 2.0 where he was mainly muscle.
Seeing him in that wheelchair was a 'Feels-bad man'

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They'll probably cure Arenvald, because injury and death does not usually stick in this game if you are a not a bad guy and are a Scion, or a Scion in everything but name.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I've also observed that the existence of some people going too far is often exploited by those who want to silence criticism towards the game - which is a trend I have observed with increasing frequency after Endwalker's decidedly mixed reaction.

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Care to show evidence?
Because I am legit curious if people are Actually trying to silence criticism, or if they just meerly disagree, and you dont like conflicting/different opinions.
You asked for evidence on claims against you...now Im asking for the Claims you make to other people.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

They'll probably cure Arenvald, because injury and death does not usually stick in this game if you are a not a bad guy and are a Scion, or a Scion in everything but name.

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I have a hunch that he'll remain in a wheelchair if only to get the most out of the unique asset that they created for him. Not that it'll ever stop him from being pushed halfway across Eorzea if needed to show up at a meeting to say his piece whenever he next makes a cameo. It's just a shame that he was tied so heavily to Fordola - they would have worked incredibly well as an active duo but now Fordola is essentially held back by Arenvald's injury even though she's already proven herself trustworthy enough to go and fight alongside the player character if she so wished.

With that said, Arenvald was apparently the inspiration behind Alphinaud deciding to become a Sage. Maybe that was because the original plan was for Arenvald to die in the finale of Shadowbringers, though.

I don't think you can blame someone for defending themselves against posters who are being unnecessarily argumentative and have admitted to continuing to do so even if they're blocked. Frankly, it just comes across as trying to stifle feedback they don't agree with and it's a bad look, especially when some of it is bordering on getting personal. The only reason they're not getting more pushback and feel they can keep going after certain posters is because they've scared others out of this thread once they incessantly started in on the few posters here who've tried to stand their ground.

Even though I'd agree blocking/ignoring is the best way to go, I also think this type of behavior needs to be discouraged.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I don't think you can blame someone for defending themselves against posters who are being unnecessarily argumentative and have admitted to continuing to do so even if they're blocked. Frankly, it just comes across as trying to stifle feedback they don't agree with and it's a bad look, especially when some of it is bordering on getting personal. The only reason they're not getting more pushback and feel they can keep going after certain posters is because they've scared others out of this thread once they incessantly started in on the few posters here who've tried to stand their ground.

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Please. Theodric and Aveyond have, at multiple times, claimed their opinions to be objective signifiers of quality or majority opinion. You can't make claims like that and then complain about argumentativeness or pushback. Also, being blocked or ignored doesn't demand that the other person does likewise.

Furthermore, your claim that people have been "scared" out of the thread is going to require some sort of evidence, considering that the majority of people posting here have likewise disagreed or argued against what the two of them are saying. Most of their support has come from their clique of friends who typically agree with everything they say, such as you.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

it just comes across as trying to stifle feedback they don't agree with and it's a bad look

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I would seriously love to see some examples.
Unless Ive just somehow been dodging it or...SOMETHING, Ive seen no example of people trying silence or Stifle Criticism of the game.
Disagreement/A Different opinion is not Silencing someone. This feels like a Victim narrative to allow you/someone to complain and say whatever they want, and be free of consequence and block any other opinion.
Then if people still disagree, then the Go-to defense is to just label them a White Knight, a shill, a cult member, and accuse them of thinking YoshiP or the Devs are this Can-do-no-wrong people that must be shielded. Just...its childish. And comes off desperate and makes you look insecure in your own opinions.

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Originally Posted by Graeham

[snip]There is a big amount of the player who is not happy with the story. We do not know number or have the proof but it is big we can feel it. [snip]

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That's a very long post just to define the word "copium".

Must be nice if we can always convince people of different opinion without proof because we can simply "feel" it. Have you ever tried that at a job interview or when negotiating a pay raise?

Fordola turns up on her own in the Endwalker role quest capstone, no mention of Arenvald. So I do think they'd be willing to put her in storylines alone when they think she'd fit there. Their role in the SMN lv80 quest was interesting, though; I understand why they can't, but I'd be interested in seeing a version of that quest written for players who are after the point where Arenvald is injured.

I think the absolute last people I want to see return in 6.2 (besides G'raha Tia) are the twins, them and their father have probably had the run of Garlemald for some time now and I have no interest in seeing one of my favourite locations brought to heel under the ideals of Sharlayan democracy. They are no one to invade another country and then have a hand in setting up provisional governments. The overall way in which the conclusion to the region's story was handled leaves much to be desired but the involvement of the Leveilleur family only worsens the blow.

What purpose Alphinaud could serve in the Void is absolutely beyond me. Voidsent, I'd like to believe, are beyond his reach and unwilling to mediate with the scions. If they somehow yield and make peace with them then it is only a matter of time before the 13th is unified under the banner of yet another republic. This is not what I come to the game for. With each fallen nation the world gets more boring and the preaching about the virtues of individual liberty and democracies only becomes worse and worse.

Give us a new cast already, and stop ruining this game's world.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I think the absolute last people I want to see return in 6.2 (besides G'raha Tia) are the twins, them and their father have probably had the run of Garlemald for some time now and I have no interest in seeing one of my favourite locations brought to heel under the ideals of Sharlayan democracy. They are no one to invade another country and then have a hand in setting up provisional governments. The overall way in which the conclusion to the region's story was handled leaves much to be desired but the involvement of the Leveilleur family only worsens the blow.

What purpose Alphinaud could serve in the Void is absolutely beyond me. Voidsent, I'd like to believe, are beyond his reach and unwilling to mediate with the scions. If they somehow yield and make peace with them then it is only a matter of time before the 13th is unified under the banner of yet another republic. This is not what I come to the game for. With each fallen nation the world gets more boring and the preaching about the virtues of individual liberty and democracies only becomes worse and worse.

Give us a new cast already, and stop ruining this game's world.

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Once again, "another democracy" is absolutely no different than "another monarchy", no matter how many times you try somehow repeat this argument ad nauseam.

Also, calling the Levellieurs "invaders" (as I'm assuming the "no one" in that sentence was a typo, otherwise it makes no sense) is ridiculous in the context of Garlemald -- when all they do is go into a country and turn it into a province while usually getting rid of whatever royalty was originally in charge. It's ridiculous for the other dictatorships in the story, too. You can't be an "invader" when the country in question is aggressively trying to kill you.

With all due respect if you want to play in a game world full of republics and the sort, why not play games like Call of Duty which are more based off the real world? People play fantasy games because they want to experience something different. Why should an american teenager pick up and play FFXIV if it's just going to be a bunch of republics in game just like the one they live in real life? It doesn't make sense.

As I said above, they have no right and are nobody to try and cause regime change in Garlemald or have any say in their future. Sharlayan is under no threat from being invaded by Garlemald. Leaving the Garlean Empire with nothing but a faceless senate in order to continue to push the ideals of Sharlayan democracy was a mistake. It has robbed the region of the things that drew me towards it in the first place, but I suppose if what you want is to see your own real life ideals reflected directly in the game world then you'd have no issue with the current state of the writing.

I however do not. I want my fantasy world to remain as such. I do not believe that people who want the real world in FFXIV should be prioritized in this manner, there are fundamental pieces of world building that shouldn't be compromised in the way in which they are now. Garlemald should have remained a monarchy. There should be far more monarchies as well. Ilsabard as a whole was left underdeveloped by the decision to rush the conclusion of Season 1, and my confidence in the current state of affairs is at an all time low.

I’m not really sure where this assumption that Alphinaud would be tied to the Void subplot were he to make an appearance in 6.2 is coming from. The narrative has been studiously avoiding bringing him and Alisaie into that plot, since, yes, the Void issues probably aren’t in his wheelhouse.

Concern about him showing up randomly in it is like me worrying about Y’shtola suddenly having a major role in the Aglaia plot. It’s possible, but there’s no evidence for it right now and were I to rant about her showing up without that evidence, it just makes me look like a biased Y’shtola hater that will take any excuse to complain about her existence in the game, even when it isn’t warranted.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

With all due respect if you want to play in a game world full of republics and the sort, why not play games like Call of Duty which are more based off the real world? People play fantasy games because they want to experience something different. Why should an american teenager pick up and play FFXIV if it's just going to be a bunch of republics in game just like the one they live in real life? It doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I however do not. I want my fantasy world to remain as such. I do not believe that people who want the real world in FFXIV should be prioritized in this manner, there are fundamental pieces of world building that shouldn't be compromised in the way in which they are now. Garlemald should have remained a monarchy. There should be far more monarchies as well. Ilsabard as a whole was left underdeveloped by the decision to rush the conclusion of Season 1, and my confidence in the current state of affairs is at an all time low.

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Irrelevant question and argument. People play fantasy games for a large number of reasons, and the existence of some republics in a fantasy setting doesn't take away from the numerous monarchies and other oligarchal governments which also exist in the game. This is not a zero-sum where it's Oops, All Monarchies or nothing else.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As I said above, they have no right and are nobody to try and cause regime change in Garlemald or have any say in their future. Sharlayan is under no threat from being invaded by Garlemald. Leaving the Garlean Empire with nothing but a faceless senate in order to continue to push the ideals of Sharlayan democracy was a mistake. It has robbed the region of the things that drew me towards it in the first place, but I suppose if what you want is to see your own real life ideals reflected directly in the game world then you'd have no issue with the current state of the writing.

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I mean, technically speaking...Garlemald lost. If we're adhering to a medieval-esque standard of nations and war (as you claim to want), then the moment that Garlemald was no longer able to defend itself and surrendered to the Eorzean Alliance, the latter technically had the "right" to do whatever they want. They could have carved up the area like Europe did Africa or East Asia. The fact that the EA leaders are giving the people ANY autonomy on how they want to rebuild at all is pretty progressive from a modern standpoint.

And like I said before, if that ruins the game for you, then oh well. You won't be the first or the last to be displeased.

Is the problem that you don’t understand that both monarchies and republics are forms of government that exist in the real world? Monarchies aren’t magical fantasy inventions created solely to populate fictional stories. Their inclusion or exclusion in any given work does not make it more or less fantastical—and Americans aren’t the only nationality playing this game.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Is the problem that you don’t understand that both monarchies and republics are forms of government that exist in the real world? Monarchies aren’t magical fantasy inventions created solely to populate fictional stories. Their inclusion or exclusion in any given work does not make it more or less fantastical—and Americans aren’t the only nationality playing this game.

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Yes but given that it's a medieval world you'd think that the former would be more prominent. The fact that they are constantly being toppled with the same song and dance preaching the same repeated values over and over again is extremely bothersome and takes away from my experience. I'm sick of it. Especially when the mouthpiece for this show is a 16 year old rich kid.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The perceived lack of character creation options has consistently been a common criticism of the game over the years, though. It just so happens that whenever anyone suggests that maybe some more time and effort could be put into expanding the range of options available to those of us who appreciate masculinity the suggestions are shot down - mysteriously quite often by those who seem to drift towards feminine and/or androgynous aesthetics themselves.

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I know that poisoning the well is, like, your thing, but framing others offering their own opinions when a topic comes up, that happen to be different from yours, as a targeted attempt to "shoot you down," is pretty ridiculous and transparent. Everyone has a right to voice their thoughts, so long as they're not pretending they're doing anything except speaking for themselves, and it doesn't have to have anything to do with specific "shooting suggestions down" - the way that trying to ascribe those who feel differently to you to some sinister, nebulous Twitter crowd who likes androgyny actually is. (It's me, yes! Hello! I love androgyny! I also hope that the Hrothgar players get the customization and updates that they deserve, and wish them well! SE did you all pretty dirty!)

I do not believe that characters with androgynous traits like the twins should be pushed to the front as much as they are, which is to say nothing of the overbearing presence of gender-neutral hairstyles in this game that to date satisfy neither gender. People aren't looking at characters like Alphinaud and saying, wow! I can't wait to play as/go on adventures with that character! Quite the opposite in fact.

He is both visually and ideologically unimpressive. If this game had its own Illidan equivalent I imagine it would do a lot more to appeal to people than some white haired teenager with magic lasers and his crew of samey yes-men.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I do not believe that characters with androgynous traits like the twins should be pushed to the front as much as they are, which is to say nothing of the overbearing presence of gender-neutral hairstyles in this game that to date satisfy neither gender. People aren't looking at characters like Alphinaud and saying, wow! I can't wait to play as/go on adventures with that character! Quite the opposite in fact.

He is both visually and ideologically unimpressive. If this game had its own Illidan equivalent I imagine it would do a lot more to appeal to people than some white haired teenager with magic lasers and his crew of samey yes-men.

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It's all about charisma, even with Illidan. Sure, he looks cool. However, if a character is not likeable by default, that is where the issue lies. Illidan didn't/doesn't really have that problem, like a lot of WoW characters that have come and/or gone. Alphinaud has had his moments, but I don't think I've ever felt like I've bonded per say with any of the Scions since I started the game back in ARR. I've felt like the 3rd wheel this entire time, and I know that wasn't the intention of the writers, because many people seem to adore them.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I do not believe that characters with androgynous traits like the twins should be pushed to the front as much as they are, which is to say nothing of the overbearing presence of gender-neutral hairstyles in this game that to date satisfy neither gender. People aren't looking at characters like Alphinaud and saying, wow! I can't wait to play as/go on adventures with that character! Quite the opposite in fact.

He is both visually and ideologically unimpressive. If this game had its own Illidan equivalent I imagine it would do a lot more to appeal to people than some white haired teenager with magic lasers and his crew of samey yes-men.

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See, this is the main issue I have with you and Theodric's claims. If your goals were merely about more "variety", then that'd be fine. More variety isn't a problem, in and of itself. But you two have constantly made it clear that your ideal is to have what you want replace, or added in place of, the alternatives. It's becoming increasingly apparent that part of this irrational anti-Scion demagoguery is to have the "androgynous" cast replaced as the FFXIV front-runners, and it seems the rest of the arguments are merely attempts at justifications.

However, if what you were saying alone were true, then Nier: Gestalt would have outsold the remake, Nier: Replicant.

Also, gender-neutral hairstyles are no issue whatsoever. Both in-game genders have plenty of exclusive hairstyles. Should there be MORE hairstyles (especially for Hrothgar)? Of course. But, once again, better hairstyles is not mutually-exclusive to gender-neutral ones.

Wow it's almost as if the original NieR games had region locked protagonists and other issues besides graphics. Nier Replicant however has a cast of characters that accounts for diversity of thought and ideology, and isn't afraid to take risks like FFXIV. That is why it so beloved.

And no, I'm not going to pretend like I'm remotely against the replacement and deletion of characters like Alphinaud and G'raha Tia. If they finally leave the main cast I'll probably throw a party in one of the housing districts. They're bad characters that have negatively impacted the story and world with their presence. The lanky, less masculine character archetype can be fulfilled by literally any other character that isn't them.

Stop forcing these immortal characters and their misguided ideals down our throats. Perhaps I should begin claiming that my side is the majority if only to re-assert control over the direction that this game is spiralling down, away from the things that once drew me towards it. Scion fans are so quick to claim the majority for themselves, so I see no reason why I cannot do the same moving forward.

I vote for a manly man that’s passionate about spreading the glory of republican statesmanship join the Scions. He can take over for Alphinaud in Garlemald while Alphinaud helps us with the Void. It’s perfect!

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

See, this is the main issue I have with you and Theodric's claims. If your goals were merely about more "variety", then that'd be fine. More variety isn't a problem, in and of itself. But you two have constantly made it clear that your ideal is to have what you want replace, or added in place of, the alternatives. It's becoming increasingly apparent that part of this irrational anti-Scion demagoguery is to have the "androgynous" cast replaced as the FFXIV front-runners, and it seems the rest of the arguments are merely attempts at justifications.

However, if what you were saying alone were true, then Nier: Gestalt would have outsold the remake, Nier: Replicant.

Also, gender-neutral hairstyles are no issue whatsoever. Both in-game genders have plenty of exclusive hairstyles. Should there be MORE hairstyles (especially for Hrothgar)? Of course. But, once again, better hairstyles is not mutually-exclusive to gender-neutral ones.

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Why is it that the only thing we can get out of you are accusations and insinuations about what people are like IRL, Crowny. Say all this rot all you damn well bloody like, but where do you get the ideas from? I'm rather convinced that if what you say Aveyond wanted was accurate, they'd just come out and say it. At the end of the day, the character creation in FFXIV is just sorely needing a revamp. Hairstyles, body archetypes the whole nine yards. If more stereotypically masculine options crop up, all the better. I mean, honestly what is so offensive about a man looking like a man anyway?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Wow it's almost as if the original NieR games had region locked protagonists and other issues besides graphics. Nier Replicant however has a cast of characters that accounts for diversity of thought and ideology, and isn't afraid to take risks like FFXIV. That is why it so beloved.

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Thanks for agreeing with me that the aesthetics of the protagonist had little, if nothing, to do with it.

Ah yes, the "diversity of thought" dog whistle. I was wondering when you guys would bring that out again.

In this case, you're pedaling the argument that the establishment of self-governing republics isn't "diversity of thought", but somehow Garlemald turning everything into a militaristic province was? Or having ten different tyrannical monarchies was diverse in thought?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

And no, I'm not going to pretend like I'm remotely against the replacement and deletion of characters like Alphinaud and G'raha Tia. If they finally leave the main cast I'll probably throw a party in one of the housing districts. They're bad characters that have negatively impacted the story and world with their presence. The lanky, less masculine character archetype can be fulfilled by literally any other character that isn't them.

Stop forcing these immortal characters and their misguided ideals down our throats.

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Again, this is just your opinion. You, and anyone who agrees, is welcome to it. But it's not an objective indication of quality.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Since when? Citations please?

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In this thread alone? Here and here.

It's almost as if I want to go see a republic I could just go outside and see American flags flying around but traditional, medieval monarchies don't exist in the real world and I like seeing them in games.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It's almost as if I want to go see a republic I could just go outside and see American flags flying around but traditional, medieval monarchies don't exist in the real world and I like seeing them in games.

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Cool. There's still plenty of them in the game. Once again, this isn't "Oops All Monarchies, or None At All".

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

The only people who have EVER claimed their side are some "mythical majority" are those Theodric and Aveyond were arguing against. Do you really think I wouldn't remember, Crowny? Come on, now. Do you really think I wouldn't remember, Crowny? Come on, now.

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To be honest, I don't know who you are nor care what you do or don't remember.

If this "their side" you're talking about are people who liked Endwalker's story, then you're sure as hell not talking about me. I detested Endwalker's story for the most part, but as I've also said (which you've also conveniently forgotten) is that just because I hate one aspect of FFXIV doesn't mean I'm going to nod my head to any and all hate of it.

So really, given how spotty your memory is, maybe I shouldn't have expected you to remember.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I do not believe that characters with androgynous traits like the twins should be pushed to the front as much as they are, which is to say nothing of the overbearing presence of gender-neutral hairstyles in this game that to date satisfy neither gender. People aren't looking at characters like Alphinaud and saying, wow! I can't wait to play as/go on adventures with that character! Quite the opposite in fact.

He is both visually and ideologically unimpressive. If this game had its own Illidan equivalent I imagine it would do a lot more to appeal to people than some white haired teenager with magic lasers and his crew of samey yes-men.

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The thing is, poll results, and general fan activity, indicate that people do like the twins. Despite Alphinaud being small and skinny and not being a physical fighter, a lot of people do like him. He is, in particular, definitely more popular than Fordola. I mean, I like Fordola fine, I'd be happy if she showed up more, but the reason he's a main party member in EW and she's in two unvoiced, high-requirement sidequest chains is not actually that SE just doesn't realize everyone likes her better. (I can't know this for certain, but I suspect most people who want Manly Men in the core party are happy with Estinien and Thancred.)

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As I said above, they have no right and are nobody to try and cause regime change in Garlemald or have any say in their future. Sharlayan is under no threat from being invaded by Garlemald. Leaving the Garlean Empire with nothing but a faceless senate in order to continue to push the ideals of Sharlayan democracy was a mistake. It has robbed the region of the things that drew me towards it in the first place, but I suppose if what you want is to see your own real life ideals reflected directly in the game world then you'd have no issue with the current state of the writing.

I however do not. I want my fantasy world to remain as such. I do not believe that people who want the real world in FFXIV should be prioritized in this manner, there are fundamental pieces of world building that shouldn't be compromised in the way in which they are now. Garlemald should have remained a monarchy. There should be far more monarchies as well. Ilsabard as a whole was left underdeveloped by the decision to rush the conclusion of Season 1, and my confidence in the current state of affairs is at an all time low.

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The twins had nothing to do with Garlemald's government at all and their father said "well there's some senate members who are still alive, they're better than nothing, let's get everyone to them and get together to rebuild the country".

Garlemald for all intents and purposes currently does not exist as anything more than a smoldering ruin and a bunch of refugees. The entire royal family was wiped out by infighting, which also destroyed the entire country. Some senators happen to still be alive and that's the closest thing the survivors have to anything closely resembling a civilian government. Garlemald was also a republic for 600 years. 60 years of a ghost with an emperor hat doesn't change that and it ended up giving them the destruction of their society. Sharlayan had nothing to do with their choosing a republic when they first created their senate and all Fourchenault is doing now is trying to find someone in charge so that the Garleans can rebuild themselves without outside interference because Sharlayan is all about non-interference.

I'm not sure where you get all these ideas from, but if you keep repeating the same thing over and over, it doesn't make you right.

Limsa Lominsa, O'ghomoro, Gridania, Xelphatol, Ul'dah, Paglth'an, Dravania, Idylshire, Thavnair, Doma and its many petty-kingdoms, the Azim Steppe, Hingashi, Dalmasca, Nagxia. These are not republics.
Sharlayan, Ishgard, Ala Mhigo, Bozja, Garlemald. These are republics. 2 of those have been republics for centuries and 4 are coming off of having extremely terrible regimes with no one left to continue the old ways.

The number of non-republics still outweighs the number of republics in the game. Then there's the old imperial remnant provinces, but we don't really know how those will go. I'm sure the majority of them were monarchies but when a giant empire comes in and destroys your country's government and kills off the royal families, they tend to not be monarchies anymore. It's funny that you keep talking about fantasy elements disappearing in the game but yet you support Garlemald who was actively destroying them. Besides killing off mages and knights in Landis, they also have oil refineries, very sci-fi forts and buildings with screen displays, airships, guns, robots, and even skyscrapers and modern day cars and trains.

Even if we had the rest of Ilsabard in an expansion set in the first half of Endwalker, nothing would have changed because we already know that all of Ilsabard is ruled by Garlemald. There's no room for any other monarchies there and the end would have been the same with Garlemald falling and Varis's corpse turning into Anima. It would have just been the usual "Garlean technology on top of whatever was there before that wasn't already destroyed", and a lot of unique elements like Landis's magic knights all dead or turned into Garlean soldiers.


Another thing to add is that nothing has changed to the casual observer in Ishgard. They weren't a "traditional, medieval monarchy" before, just a theocracy. The people themselves chose not to trust the church anymore and the church did all of that themselves. The lords still have power, but they can no longer force the peasants to do their bidding with the backing of the church now that the peasants have guns and ideas and there's no more existential threat about to wipe them off the mountainside. But there's still castles, knights, mages, and tons and tons of grey stone. It's just that there's no more elf pope on a throne and the lords and the peasants get together behind the scenes to squabble about government but it's not like we can see that, nor do we really hear anything about it at all after the storyline is over anyway.