New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

the general sentiment has been extremely negative and outraged. i don't know of a single person who said "oooh! earless cats! what a novel idea! 2B Hair on a Hrothgar? Sign me up!" What worries me however is the absolute silence on their part. usually they'd come out with a statement, an apology, or something. Also i noticed a very distinct absence of any sort of mention of the Hrothgar hairstyles on the Twitter official page which was releasing information on everything that was covered in the LL. So it definitely stood out that it got no mention whatsoever.

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Oh I agree with you about reception. I don't think I've seen one person in this thread who likes it. My point though is that it's easier to pull something that hasn't been released than to pull something that has been and where some users in the player base are actually using the content. They should pony up and simply delay it based on it's reception. April 12th isn't here yet and I'm sure that delaying the content is very possible.

Edit: If I'm not mistaken there are NPC's in game and in Borza who have different styles. Why not simply implement these as custom hairstyles to increase the variety and give Hroths' a pass on having to pay for hairstyle changes.

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Originally Posted by Zorixas

What has me questioning it is that this is the first live letter that did air on April 1st, on April Fools' Day, so we can't make the claim that this is an "out of season April Fools' joke". There's nothing to reference this exact scenario, and I wouldn't put it past him to aim for the long game of a joke to make us think that it is real when it's not. Also that the ears connected to the hair is a provable lie for the current heads, and a new head with toggle-able ears would have to be made in order to make this happen. Why discard the current head for that? There are too many factors that has me questioning that presentation. It's painfully obvious that it is bad, too obvious...

Don't get the wrong idea though, it's not that I'm excusing it, but rather it makes no sense to be mad about it now. Rather, I would use this time to think about what to do when 6.1 is released. What would I do if it was a joke and what would I do if was real? I do have an idea of what to do if it turns out to be real, but I'd want to think it through if I really want to do it, because it will be self-destructive on both sides. If it is a joke though, I will throw away those plans, and just laugh so hard that my neighbors will think that I've lost my mind.

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I sincerely doubt it'd be an April Fools' joke, as much as I wish it were. It's been two days since the liveletter now and we've had no ''SIKE!!!!! Here's the real hairs you'll be getting'' yet. If they WERE doing this as a joke and are aware that these hairs aren't up to par with the community's expectations, then I'm pretty sure they also already must have had some idea that they'd be receiving backlash for it, meaning they'd probably want to dismiss it as a prank as soon as possible, instead of what we have now where there's LOADS of negativity from basically all of the community.

The reason we don't see the hairs mentioned anywhere such as on the FFXIV socials or patch 6.1 site is probably moreso because they either already predicted the backlash and decided to omit the information on purpose in hopes it'd slide under the radar as much as possible for people who didn't watch the PLL or because, in real-time, they saw the backlash and decided NOT to make posts about it.

I get that that's quite a pessimistic perspective but it just feels like the most realistic outcome to me right now.
Of course, if it IS an April Fools' joke, I will first of all be happy that THANK THE TWELVE, WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY STUCK WITH THESE!
But also disappointed that they thought this was somehow a good prank to pull without dismissing it as such ASAP, especially since it's something Hrothgar players have been waiting on for years now.

Not defending anything, I'm a Hrothgar player myself and I already stated my feedback yesterday. But I feel the need to remind you that the announcement has been at a Friday and fairly late for Japanese time zone. It is week-end. And considering how the FFXIV studio at least tries to treat their workers properly and respect their health and free time, I could imagine that they won't work right now. For us internet forum people Monday is ages ahead, always has been the thing with forums and social media in my experience, but for many other people in this world it's one or two days of not working. This includes press statements, apology letters and maybe providing actual game footage, should this have been a big horrible prank.

Obviously, would this have been an actual prank, it is really poor taste to keep it up over the week-end in the first place. My most optimistic guess is that they wanted to wait for a reaction from a community before making further decisions about the hairstyles, but without saying "we want to wait for your reaction." That would also explain why it is not on Twitter or the website yet. My most pessimistic guess, which I sadly consider more likely, is that they just don't really care anymore and don't want to give it any sort of priority, no matter if they have the budget to get more manpower or not. (And I am pretty certain they do have this.) But as said, those are just guesses. I don't have any actual insights, so I rather wait to Monday or even Tuesday, if they are going to address this in any way.

Are you all actually entertaining the notion that this was an "April Fools' joke"? I thought you all were just meeming ...

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Oh I agree with you about reception. I don't think I've seen one person in this thread who likes it.

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I'm fine with it and happy that I get to look forward to Female Hrothgar with w/e shared hair Viera have. Plus, I called it (That Hrothgar would just get the same hairstyles Viera get) a long time ago.
But, TBH, I thought they would just use the Miqote versions of these hairstyles so that they would actually have visible ears. That, or try to add lil tuffs with a set of lil cat ears at the top of the forehead. I'm certainly not beside my with disappointment at the prospect of playing a female Hrothgar who wears an ear-covering-wig though.

I've already posted my opinion in regards to the matter, but all I can say is I wish content creators for FFXIV would speak up about the situation more. It's time SE stop stalling and actually do real work for these races, starting with Hrothgar. Halt production entirely for Female Hrothgar, ignore the people who'll start crying "sexist and homophobic" and god knows what else, I'm sure they can wait for an extra 2+ years to see what F-Hrothgar look like in 2b boots.

The state of the Hrothgar hair made me go back to miqote after 2 years.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Are you all actually entertaining the notion that this was an "April Fools' joke"? I thought you all were just meeming ...

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for me personally not as much actually thinking it COULD be an April Fools' joke (for reasons already stated in my previous posts) as much as copium-fueled ''well if it WAS one, then...''
Given what we know I'm still sure that this is, unfortunately, genuinely what we'll be getting.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I've already posted my opinion in regards to the matter, but all I can say is I wish content creators for FFXIV would speak up about the situation more. It's time SE stop stalling and actually do real work for these races, starting with Hrothgar. Halt production entirely for Female Hrothgar, ignore the people who'll start crying "sexist and homophobic" and god knows what else, I'm sure they can wait for an extra 2+ years to see what F-Hrothgar look like in 2b boots.

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Considering they said they hadn't even decided on a final design for them yet I don't think they actually are in production yet.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Considering they said they hadn't even decided on a final design for them yet I don't think they actually are in production yet.

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That actually means they're in production.

He was saying that they have 2 designs that they settled on (Did he mean full body designs or 2 face designs? Who knows, I don't) and started testing how they look in game already, meaning they have models made of Female Hrothgar by now and are actively doing the process of testing/ making them.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That actually means they're in production.

He was saying that they have 2 designs that they settled on (Did he mean full body designs or 2 face designs? Who knows, I don't) and started testing how they look in game already, meaning they have models made of Female Hrothgar by now and are actively doing the process of testing/ making them.

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Really? You got all that from "we've narrowed it down to two designs" ?

You really must be a fortune teller.

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As it stands, the art team has drawn a plethora of concepts, and two have been selected. However, Yoshida stated that it will be some time before the female Hrothgar will be playable in FFXIV.

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Says otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Euphares

https://i.imgur.com/VPNW1za.png

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I want to speak to your manager.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

I want to speak to your manager.

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Wut you taking bout he cool! :P

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Really? You got all that from "we've narrowed it down to two designs" ?

You really must be a fortune teller.

Says otherwise.

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The whole thing was translated live, so IDK why you're using a short version from a website.

"So right now we had the art team draw a variety of styles for a possible female Hrothgar design. We’ve picked 2 of them and we’re currently thinking about how those would look and what adjustments we would have to involve in putting those into character creation so obviously it’s going to be some time before we can actually implement them as a race but we are working and we are making progress. "

So in short, I read that as they have gone through the concept art stage and have decided on 2 prob faces (50% of the expected faces) and are right now figuring out the visuals and the CC for those 2. Literally, ALL of this is part of the production process, from concept art to animation and textures. I'd think the hardest thing to figure out design wise would be the face, as the body isn't gonna be anything crazy and there are so many styles to do a cat woman face in. Simply moving forward with 2 is a huge step.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

The whole thing was translated live, so IDK why you're using a short version from a website.

"So right now we had the art team draw a variety of styles for a possible female Hrothgar design. We’ve picked 2 of them and we’re currently thinking about how those would look and what adjustments we would have to involve in putting those into character creation so obviously it’s going to be some time before we can actually implement them as a race but we are working and we are making progress. "

So in short, I read that as they have gone through the concept art stage and have decided on 2 prob faces (50% of the expected faces) and are right now figuring out the visuals and the CC for those 2. Literally, ALL of this is part of the production process, from concept art to animation and textures.

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Saying they picked two designs and are thinking about how those would look and how they would put them in character creation doesn't sound like they have models made and are testing them, but if that's how it reads to you that's fine.

Since it's not what the thread is about we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm expecting eq kerra/vah shir and Elder Scrolls khajiit style females btw. Humanoid, upright, fully furred anthrokitties.

I'll give them a shot.

As a former hrothgar player this is a slap to the face with a table kind of pain and sadness.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I've already posted my opinion in regards to the matter, but all I can say is I wish content creators for FFXIV would speak up about the situation more. It's time SE stop stalling and actually do real work for these races, starting with Hrothgar. Halt production entirely for Female Hrothgar, ignore the people who'll start crying "sexist and homophobic" and god knows what else, I'm sure they can wait for an extra 2+ years to see what F-Hrothgar look like in 2b boots.

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This is what we've been asking. Halt production for female Hrothgar until you've had working content. Because we don't want future players to continue being so limited. I'd like to think male Viera players would have appreciated a bit more polish before being implemented as well.

As a male Viera player I'm pretty happy with what we got despite having wanted a few other unlockable hairstyles. It beats having not having the option to play as one at all, I am ok with having received them in the state we got given that we are seeing regular (albeit minor) updates to Viera hairs each patch, it seems. That being said, what in the world is going on with Hrothgar? The situation is just strange at this point.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As a male Viera player I'm pretty happy with what we got despite having wanted a few other unlockable hairstyles. It beats having not having the option to play as one at all, I am ok with having received them in the state we got given that we are seeing regular (albeit minor) updates to Viera hairs each patch, it seems. That being said, what in the world is going on with Hrothgar? The situation is just strange at this point.

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the situation is the result of a mixture of shoddy workmanship and an unwillingness to fix their mistakes.

they made Hrothgar by taking the framework of the Male Roegadyn and manipulated it until they had the Hrothgar. This is the underlying cause of most of the limitations faced by the race because they have to force any changes to the framework to adhere to the new shape, and some things, like hairstyles, just don't want to fit because they were made for a human body, and the decidedly inhuman appearance of the Hrothgar causes a lot of problems. Most of the human hairstyles simply aren't going to work well with the framework of the Hrothgar and they should have spent their time adding maybe 1-2 unique Hrothgar hairstyles and working on detaching what 8 hairstyles we currently have from the faces and giving us free access to those via the Aesthetician .

There are a handful of hairstyles like the Windcaller, or Pulse hairstyles that fit, but the majority are rather awkward and don't sit very well on the head.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

The whole thing was translated live, so IDK why you're using a short version from a website.

We’ve picked 2 of them and we’re currently thinking about how those would look and what adjustments we would have to involve in putting those into character creation so obviously it’s going to be some time before we can actually implement them as a race but we are working and we are making progress. "

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The wording here is a little baffling you have 2 possible designs, but you're trying to figure out how they would look? It sounds more contradictory than anything

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As a male Viera player I'm pretty happy with what we got despite having wanted a few other unlockable hairstyles. It beats having not having the option to play as one at all, I am ok with having received them in the state we got given that we are seeing regular (albeit minor) updates to Viera hairs each patch, it seems. That being said, what in the world is going on with Hrothgar? The situation is just strange at this point.

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Well, I stand corrected. And it's good that you have been getting updates because I'd personally rather see you have the choice to play Male Viera as complete as possible. But no word's been given on Hrothgars since that one time devs worked behind Yoshida's back before Shadowbringers until now. And this is what we end up getting.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

they made Hrothgar by taking the framework of the Male Roegadyn and manipulated it until they had the Hrothgar. This is the underlying cause of most of the limitations faced by the race because they have to force any changes to the framework to adhere to the new shape, and some things, like hairstyles, just don't want to fit because they were made for a human body, and the decidedly inhuman appearance of the Hrothgar causes a lot of problems. Most of the human hairstyles simply aren't going to work well with the framework of the Hrothgar and they should have spent their time adding maybe 1-2 unique Hrothgar hairstyles and working on detaching what 8 hairstyles we currently have from the faces and giving us free access to those via the Aesthetician .

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Basically this. Because not only are our new options bad save for Pulse, we also can't change hairs without paying for a Fantasia. And nothing's been said about this bit, though I do hope that come 6.1 that'll be done away with to accomodate the new ""hairstyles"".

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Well, I stand corrected. And it's good that you have been getting updates because I'd personally rather see you have the choice to play Male Viera as complete as possible. But no word's been given on Hrothgars since that one time devs worked behind Yoshida's back before Shadowbringers until now. And this is what we end up getting.



Basically this. Because not only are our new options bad save for Pulse, we also can't change hairs without paying for a Fantasia. And nothing's been said about this bit, though I do hope that come 6.1 that'll be done away with to accomodate the new ""hairstyles"".

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the fact they failed to mention it at all leads me to believe they still didn't fix it. i mean they essentially copy/pasted these hairstyles from the Roegadyn frame onto Hrothgar. You can even see that the hair fits really awkwardly because the head shape of a Hrothgar is so different from a Roegadyn. Im going into this fully expecting them to have not fixed anything. Hell i wouldn't be surprised if we lost total access to the 8 Hairstyles attached to the 4 faces if we use the Aesthetician to change our hair, and have to fork over a Fantasia to get it back.

Or worse, they remove the ears from the 8 hairstyles we already have and we're stuck looking like earless freaks

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

Or worse, they remove the ears from the 8 hairstyles we already have and we're stuck looking like earless freaks

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oh god.....they wouldn't that now....would they?

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Originally Posted by Gullis

oh god.....they wouldn't that now....would they?

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given their excuse about how "this is how it has to be because something, something, limitations." i wouldn't rule it out

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Originally Posted by Akimori

The wording here is a little baffling you have 2 possible designs, but you're trying to figure out how they would look? It sounds more contradictory than anything

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https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/f1...97355ef81a.jpg

Concept art =/= plug and play. The top and bottom left designs are very much in line with what ended up being released but they still weren't final passes.

I think what worries me the most about how they have implemented Hrothgar (and arguably Viera), is how much it pales and lacks when compared to some of FFXIV's biggest competitors: WoW, ESO and GW2. I made each example a clickable link, in order to avoid crowding the thread with pictures.

World of Warcraft has several playable beast races that can display hats without making up any excuses. (Exhibit A; Exhibit B)

Elder Scrolls Online can also display hats for their Argonians and Khajiits, as well as offering unique race-specific hairstyles and headgear. (Exhibit C)

Guild Wars 2 also has unique customization options for their playable beast race. These are some of the Charr-specific hairstyles unique to them. I picked the ones that are bordering on the goofy side, but display how unique they can get. (Exhibit D; Exhibit E; Exhibit F). Not only that, but they can also wear hats and have cape physics. (Exhibit G)

I find it a bit concerning, and irritating, that SE has claimed no expenses will be spared when it comes to FFXIV. Is this the kind of quality we should expect from them moving forward?

I understand there are a myriad of reasons why these things cannot be fixed overnight, but the fact that it took them 3 years to come up with this solution is very disappointing, to say the least.

Yoshida was right when he said people are very attached to their WoLs when introducing the Adventurer Plates. I'm personally awfully attached to my characters, and I want to see them at their best. Seeing Hrothgar get treated like a fourth-class citizen is just frustrating to see.

As a side note, all the pictures used for my examples are of my characters in those games. I apologize for the lack of variety in them.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/f1...97355ef81a.jpg

Concept art =/= plug and play. The top and bottom left designs are very much in line with what ended up being released but they still weren't final passes.

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well lets just hope its not human faces w/ cat-like features....That would be the easiest to implement and can help with the hat and hair thing, but ugh. It would just be such a lazy way out rather than trying to figure out a workable solution that doesn't involve sacrificing body parts

I dont play hrothgar. I just wanted to come and say im sorry for u guys, the portrayed images look genuinely cringeworthy.

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Originally Posted by Akimori

well lets just hope its not human faces w/ cat-like features....That would be the easiest to implement and can help with the hat and hair thing, but ugh. It would just be such a lazy way out rather than trying to figure out a workable solution that doesn't involve sacrificing body parts

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Being human with rabbit-like features (ears) didn't really help Viera with the hair and hat thing so... Maybe slightly with the hair thing. :p

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Yoshida says it's not like everyone needs to use all races equally People will decide what characters to use for whatever reason, that give the world flavor and variety. They're not focused on if it will be used equally, but as long as people have a good time.

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Now Hrothgar aren't exactly having a good time, but reading that I don't think slightly-larger-blue-Miqo'te just for mass appeal is necessarily a given either. For good or bad.

I really hope that the dev team will take a look at the player feedback and take it to heart. I would rather wait for a future patch to have the hairstyles implemented than have this complete joke.
I would be the happiest if the dev team came out and said: "Sorry guys, as it stands now we can't fix Hrothgar, so with the next patch we will take the current Hrothgar model out of the game to have it fully reworked on! We apologise for the inconvenience."
It would suck to not have them available for a while, but it would be worth it if they would actually receive the care and love that they should have had and make them better.

This is seriously a knife in the side, and I genuinely feel awful for the fluffy folk for this crap. It feels like a close friend of mine just got horrible news, head in their hands and grieving while all I can really do is pat their shoulder.

Every time I run a dungeon that has hrothguys in it, they're nicely glammed and look badass. The amount of 'meme-ing' they get stuck with is plain dumb compared to how many frog/rabbit/elephant mascot head lalafell or naked leather daddy roes or the weird looking combinations I see viera/miqo'te make with 2b stockings I see PLENTY more of.

And the whole 'pretend the ears are under the hair' is plain stupid. Try that with miqo'te or viera and they'll raise enough hell to bring the fifth coming of Bahamut down on Squeenix. Hrothguys accept their word that they're 'working on it, be patient please' and be patient for years, only to be chuckled at while showcased in hairstyles that make them look.. well.. awful. That's what they wanna do to their 'fierce bestial race' that they wanted in the game?

Ya'll really deserve better.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Guild Wars 2 also has unique customization options for their playable beast race. These are some of the Charr-specific hairstyles unique to them. I picked the ones that are bordering on the goofy side, but display how unique they can get. (Exhibit D; Exhibit E; Exhibit F). Not only that, but they can also wear hats and have cape physics. (Exhibit G)

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GW2 is a good example how much variety you get even with limiting yourself to a few faces, hair styles and extras. It's almost impossible to create the same Charr, except on purpose. And that with a semi-antique character creation. Maybe the options of overall fur patterns (*hint hint nudge*) also give a huge impact, but the statement keeps valid.
Link: Few examples

For the helmets, it's a wild mix of clip through, cut everything off, and even 100 and 10 % uniquely modelled.
Here it gets complicated with what option both sides would be fine with. Option 1 and 2 are for quicker results, while option 3 eats up development time. By guess, Sqex would most likely provide option 2, as the few full helmets that can be worn actually remove everything and turn us into hunched Roes, and even cut and/or deform the snouts.

So maybe that wish is one of the several times mentioned "monkey paw" issues lurking around here.

Link GW2 helmets: And the helmets
Link 14 comparison: More helmet stuff (Look for that at MB to self check in preview)

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

I understand there are a myriad of reasons why these things cannot be fixed overnight, but the fact that it took them 3 years to come up with this solution is very disappointing, to say the least.

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To be fair, rewriting a whole or just a small part of an integral system isn't the smallest task to set upon someone. It even took Blizzard a while, not only to revamp old meshes, but also to turn those new ones into separate customizable parts. Don't really want to know how long at all, but the results are more than fine for that game.

Still no excuse why Sqex went such an... "extravagant" way with the Hroth, causing so many troubles after all. And that's only mostly the hairs, and not whole body... somehow... maybe.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a8/f1...97355ef81a.jpg

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aaaaa, stop reminding me about how screwed au ra got... :(

I'm normally not one to post on the forums when I'm upset, but this one really hit different.

I really appreciate how much care and passion the FFXIV team put into their work. When I hear that a feature or change I am excited about will take a lot of work, I feel reassured that the team is going to put their best effort into their work. This is probably the first time that level of trust has felt betrayed. We've been receiving reassurances of new customization options for 3 years now, and I was content to wait patiently. Coding takes time, and the unique way hrothgar are implemented was sure to be difficult to get around.

But this does not feel like feel like 3 years of effort. This feels like 3 years of sitting on someone's "to-do" list, and when the clock finally ran out they asked for an extension for 6.1. Even then, they went through the motions on a project they weren't passionate about, just to check it off and clock out at the end of the day.

Does nobody on the FFXIV team play hrothgar? If these issues were to arise with Mi'qo or Au'ra unique head styles, I'm sure there would be passion from within the team to make sure it was done right. Heck, there was probably more careful consideration in their initial coding so that these problems never arose.

I know my comments are a drop in the bucket of the feedback they're getting over this, but if anyone from the team reads this I just want one thing: Find some passion for Horthgars on the FFXIV team, please. Maybe ask people to switch to hroth for a few days to try it out, so they can feel our problems first hand. Maybe solicit community members that have done so so so much work. However you do it, just find the passion for this race somewhere. The team's passion for the universe gushes from almost every other corner of the game, don't let this exist as some weird blemish.

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Originally Posted by Lystik

But this does not feel like feel like 3 years of effort. This feels like 3 years of sitting on someone's "to-do" list, and when the clock finally ran out they asked for an extension for 6.1. Even then, they went through the motions on a project they weren't passionate about, just to check it off and clock out at the end of the day.

Does nobody on the FFXIV team play hrothgar? If these issues were to arise with Mi'qo or Au'ra unique head styles, I'm sure there would be passion from within the team to make sure it was done right.

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Healer mains: "First time?"

Between the absolute joke of Square's Hrothgar update for 6.1, and YoshiderP admitting he kicked the healer out of his playtesting group for being "too good," I think we have a clear picture of how the dev team operates: if nobody on the dev team personally cares about an issue, it doesn't exist.

At most, they'll occasionally listen to feedback from the JP players only, and pretend that NA and EU don't exist (despite making up a majority of the playerbase).

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

Between the absolute joke of Square's Hrothgar update for 6.1, and YoshiderP admitting he kicked the healer out of his playtesting group for being "too good," I think we have a clear picture of how the dev team operates: if nobody on the dev team personally cares about an issue, it doesn't exist.

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The healer thing though makes sense, you have to balance around lower skilled players for normal dungeon content, not the top skilled. His healer was essentially Savage raider level, but he needed a Duty Finder "questionable healer" level.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

The healer thing though makes sense, you have to balance around lower skilled players for normal dungeon content, not the top skilled. His healer was essentially Savage raider level, but he needed a Duty Finder "questionable healer" level.

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But it’s okay for him, an orange parsing black mage to be a part of the testing team? Makes sense makes sense, just your typical double standard of healers vs dps. Either way though, it just shows SE is slowly getting lazier and lazier. 3 years and hrothgar players get this. 6+ years and healer players are still getting nothing. The fame got to their head it seems.

and then there is me, a Hrothgar Healer main

Is it possible that those new hairstyles were actually an April Fool's joke? I mean, they are so horribly bad that they couldn't possibly be real, right? RIGHT?

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Is it possible that those new hairstyles were actually an April Fool's joke? I mean, they are so horribly bad that they couldn't possibly be real, right? RIGHT?

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I mean, that was most peopls first reaction hehehe

I feel they would have said so, if it were, but at the same time, there should be no way they would look at that and be like "yeah they will love this!" riiight? this whole situation is so wierd honestly. I just can't grasp how they thought this was fine.