No one logged in today because of Lost Ark

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Out of curiosity I decided to give it a go. I'll be honest, Path of Exile is probably a better free option for this sort of thing.

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I don't know, I could never get into PoE, and I have tried playing that game since like it came out. Always found it boring. Between me having to go AFK periodically, I played Lost Ark for the majority of the day yesterday. I kind of like the mmorpg aspect mixed with the ARPG style. The collection, and completionist side stuff, has maintained my interest as well. One thing I actually liked doing in something like GW2 was completing an area. As far as I am aware, there is really no reason to play something PoE or Diablo outside of season start - then you just redo everything. Not that I play very many ARPG.

It could just be that I have the right 'mood' to play this currently. Like I've said before, I have tried many other korean mmorpgs in the past, and this one seems better than most. I can see why it has gotten so insanely popular.

Lost Ark is entertaining. Kind of weirdly dissonant at first, but it keeps getting better. It's thoughtfully constructed and has had some genuinely good gameplay moments. Enough to keep me trying.

I don't expect it to be a game I grind religiously, but I am enjoying logging in after two days, which is about where I started to despise New World.

PoE is not a game I'd recommend casually, tbh. IF you're into that style of look-up-guide-grind-at-max-like-crazy-every-season game, sure. But, personally, the gameplay itself is kinda poor, Lost Ark legitimately has funner combat. Grim Dawn would be my ARPG of preference among those currently out (lots of builds and balanced for self-found), but the issue with it is I feel the campaign can feel quite draggy and tiring after the first pass. I have a decent amount of hours in GD, but I tend to have to stop it after a while.

I feel like Last Epoch doesn't have that problem, which is why I'm excited for it to release someday. xD You can come up with a feasible build without a guide, and it doesn't take a lot of time to get to the endgame bits. I enjoyed simply joining a league casually for a bit where you'd roll a new hardcore character every week and try to get as far as possible in the arena (Horde mode).

I haven't played BDO, what are the similarities there? I thought BDO was big on... paying for quite a bit of stuff and... pens...?

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

PoE is not a game I'd recommend casually, tbh. IF you're into that style of look-up-guide-grind-at-max-like-crazy-every-season game, sure. But, personally, the gameplay itself is kinda poor, Lost Ark legitimately has funner combat. Grim Dawn would be my ARPG of preference among those currently out (lots of builds and balanced for self-found), but the issue with it is I feel the campaign can feel quite draggy and tiring after the first pass. I have a decent amount of hours in GD, but I tend to have to stop it after a while.

I feel like Last Epoch doesn't have that problem, which is why I'm excited for it to release someday. xD You can come up with a feasible build without a guide, and it doesn't take a lot of time to get to the endgame bits. I enjoyed simply joining a league casually for a bit where you'd roll a new hardcore character every week and try to get as far as possible in the arena (Horde mode).

I haven't played BDO, what are the similarities there? I thought BDO was big on... paying for quite a bit of stuff and... pens...?

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I have played BDO and there are definitely similarities in the way the game presents itself : gear enhancing, life skills, the game mechanics (mounts/pets/inventories, etc...), but these never seem to be predatory unlike with the cash shop in BDO and its endless layers of RNG. You can definitely get the "korean mmo feel".
Overall I'm having a blast and it feels easy to get into, with an immersive world.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

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Better to ignore any bigot that think it's ok to shame others because their sexuality. Same goes for all those misogynist that believe is their right to control what a woman can or can't do/wear. Honorary mention too to all those tyrants that want to control the artistic expression of others.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Better to ignore any bigot that think it's ok to shame others because their sexuality. Same goes for all those misogynist that believe is their right to control what a woman can or can't do/wear. Honorary mention too to all those tyrants that want to control the artistic expression of others.

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Can you sqeeze in a few more ist and phobe buzzwords?

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Can you sqeeze in a few more ist and phobe buzzwords?

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How about
MATERALISM!
UNILATERALISM!
Welcome maxims for those with no faith, without guiding principles of their own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0RMGid6vo

I doubt Lost Ark will be a total flash in the pan but it'll probably hover around the BDO-level of playerbase after the initial boom.

World of Warcraft lost 3 million players last year, and not all 3 million of them came over to XIV. While XIV attracts a lot of people for its story focus, it also repels a lot of people for that same reason. I think the current MMO climate is very different than it has been in a long time, simply because the whale carcass that is WoW has left a lot of people displaced and actually looking at a new MMO for once instead of just immediately writing it off as "Not as good as my home MMO."

It'd be like if XIV's servers suddenly shut down for good next week. While initially you might have overlooked brand new MMO #45 because XIV is your baby and nothing could take you away from it, even if it was actually pretty solid, now you go "Hell, why not? I got nothing else to do" and you sink your teeth into it.

I logged in today to Lost Ark. Queue position 15202 on Asta. I logged off. :S

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I logged in today to Lost Ark. Queue position 15202 on Asta. I logged off. :S

Cheers

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It's like Endwalker launch day all over again :sweat:

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Originally Posted by Amon-ster

I doubt Lost Ark will be a total flash in the pan but it'll probably hover around the BDO-level of playerbase after the initial boom.

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I agree completely. There's a number of reasons why Lost Ark is experiencing such a huge initial boom. It's F2P so there's no real reason not to at least try it. It's really popular and everyone seems to be playing it so, combined with F2P, that momentum is going to bring in a lot of players. We're in a content lull across gaming in general right now so people are looking to fill time before the heavy hitters start coming out in a couple weeks. And, of course, Lost Ark really is an actually fun game to just jump in and play so those who try it aren't likely to be initially repelled. Remember that just because the concept of "Ewww P2W Korean Trash!!1!" is a factor amongst some portions of the service game playerbase, the vast majority of people don't care or even know about any of that. They just see something being popular and/or looking cool and/or their friends talking about it and so they at least try it.

Now, given the structure of the game, I don't see it lasting all that long. Once there are other games to play and once players start running into the actual End Game grind and repetition, P2W or not, they're going to start bouncing off hard. This is where the F2P element of the game is going to be an issue because for all of the "Easy In" that F2P provides, it also makes things (and the game service itself) "Easy Out." Given that it's a globally popular game and that it seems like they're basically rushing players to a point of near parity with the Korean version, I highly doubt the game is going to fail outright or anything like that, but there is little chance Lost Ark is going to be a major player in the MMO space in a years time.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

I agree completely. There's a number of reasons why Lost Ark is experiencing such a huge initial boom. It's F2P so there's no real reason not to at least try it. It's really popular and everyone seems to be playing it so, combined with F2P, that momentum is going to bring in a lot of players. We're in a content lull across gaming in general right now so people are looking to fill time before the heavy hitters start coming out in a couple weeks. And, of course, Lost Ark really is an actually fun game to just jump in and play so those who try it aren't likely to be initially repelled. Remember that just because the concept of "Ewww P2W Korean Trash!!1!" is a factor amongst some portions of the service game playerbase, the vast majority of people don't care or even know about any of that. They just see something being popular and/or looking cool and/or their friends talking about it and so they at least try it.

Now, given the structure of the game, I don't see it lasting all that long. Once there are other games to play and once players start running into the actual End Game grind and repetition, P2W or not, they're going to start bouncing off hard. This is where the F2P element of the game is going to be an issue because for all of the "Easy In" that F2P provides, it also makes things (and the game service itself) "Easy Out." Given that it's a globally popular game and that it seems like they're basically rushing players to a point of near parity with the Korean version, I highly doubt the game is going to fail outright or anything like that, but there is little chance Lost Ark is going to be a major player in the MMO space in a years time.

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While I agree mostly I think it's important to recognize just how many displaced MMO players there are right now. I think it'll still be big, but I definitely don't think we'll be seeing "Lost Ark just hit 25 million players!" big or what have you. F2P and a content lull does absolutely help to boost it up right now, but in the case of World of Warcraft it's way more than a content lull. I think Lost Ark is a solid game, and that it launched at the absolute best time to launch a new MMO. It's my experience that grind doesn't actually bother people, as WoW was a big grind but still held onto its massive playerbase until very recently. Relic weapons are a grind but people still complete them on all 19 jobs (I think there's 19 right now). Grind isn't really an issue if it's a game you love, if it's your home game. And right now, there are millions of people looking for a new home game, much more than there have been since WoW released 17 years ago.

I don't really feel that LA qualifies as an MMO, tbh, in the typical trappings, which is things like customization, community feel, world. I think it's an ARPG masquerading as an MMO, so it will stick with a chunk of people because why not, but I don't see it really competing in the MMO space much once people figure that out.

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

I don't really feel that LA qualifies as an MMO, tbh, in the typical trappings, which is things like customization, community feel, world. I think it's an ARPG masquerading as an MMO, so it will stick with a chunk of people because why not, but I don't see it really competing in the MMO space much once people figure that out.

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The game plays nothing like an MMO - traditional ones at least. Western players don't want hardcore grind as a main gameplay element, but that is what this game offers. If you want to be the best, you have to mindlessly grind or pay up. Lost Ark will undoubtedly tank sooner or later for this reason. It would've been better off long-term as B2P and with a minor comestic-only cash shop.

I still think the game offers a very good combat experience and is definitely worth trying out.

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

I don't really feel that LA qualifies as an MMO, tbh, in the typical trappings, which is things like customization, community feel, world. I think it's an ARPG masquerading as an MMO, so it will stick with a chunk of people because why not, but I don't see it really competing in the MMO space much once people figure that out.

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That's very true, and that's one of the reasons why I don't think it will have much staying power. Like I said before, once players hit that End Game grind I think they'll start bouncing off of it. While it may well be true that MMOs do tend to all have some level of grind once you reach the end game, they also offer a lot more than just that. There's an ongoing story and world. There's continual content to keep you interested outside of just new things to fight. There's more of a sense of community. Lost Ark has the trappings of an MMO without the long form substance of one, as evidenced by just how the game is not only rushing players to end game but then giving out in game tickets to power level your second and eventually third class to end game. Maybe they have a bigger plan once all game regions are at virtual parity but given that the game has been out for years in Korea and hasn't seemed to offer more than an end game gear treadmill grind I'm not sure I would put money on it.

And, again, before anyone jumps in and says "You're just a FF14 fanboy who is bashing LA for no reason!!1!" Sorry, but I'm actually quite enjoying Lost Ark. I've spent quite a few hours this weekend playing it and look forward to playing more. It's a fun game. It just doesn't really the feature set needed to have staying power in the MMO space because, frankly, it really isn't an MMO outside of the coat it's dressing itself up in.

I don't think the definition of a games success should be defined as the same way an MMO player would define, which is often the most extreme of the scale being All In, Totally Obsessed, I-don't-have-much-time-for-anything else.

This game can quite happily occupy the slot of something you log into for a bit, or a couple times a week and doesn't need to be a replacement. It can coexist because it's differences are what makes it stand out. I think people underestimate it's potential.

I don't see the need for people to population forecast and predict the growth, longevity, or success of a game when they aren't fortune tellers, and realistically don't have the professional training or acumen to make those calls.

Either you enjoy it, or you don't

I'm not logging in because of Pokemon Legends: Arceus

Didn't even know what Lost Ark was until somebody mentioned it lol

Good for Lost Ark, and ultimately good for 14! 14 had a successful launch, and there's only been signs of growth so theres no danger of competition pushing it out of the market entirely.

And at the same time having other MMOs be popular means players get more choice in what content they'd like to spend time on, and it means its less likely that Square (not Yoshi P or CBU III mind you, I think the team isn't one to rest on its laurels) will become complacent.

All good news all around I'd say.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Good for Lost Ark, and ultimately good for 14! 14 had a successful launch, and there's only been signs of growth so theres no danger of competition pushing it out of the market entirely.

And at the same time having other MMOs be popular means players get more choice in what content they'd like to spend time on, and it means its less likely that Square…will become complacent.

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I agree. I think it’s better to have different options than to have one or two companies holding an mmorpg monopoly.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I logged in today to Lost Ark. Queue position 15202 on Asta. I logged off. :S

Cheers

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The population is super weird, cause for example on EU you have that kind of crazy queues, in fact it seems they're adding a new EU dc? but then I'm on NA east mainly and I never had to do any queue at all, not even of 10 persons, I just instantly get in. they even barely added any server for it on official launch. while NA West is almost as crowded as eu

It'll calm down-- people are just bored for a new MMO and LA is free, so everyone is trying it. However, it's -really really really- grindy after the initial leveling phase, and heavy P2W. Most people are probably just messing around on it for something new to do for a week or two, but I doubt it's going to be anything MASSIVE--more like Tera was initially, or BDO.

Today I was treated to the visual spectacle that is the Lost Ark female walking animation thanks to twitter. Suddenly, I have a newfound appreciation for the elezen walking animation and how other female races move in this game in general.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Today I was treated to the visual spectacle that is the Lost Ark female walking animation thanks to twitter. Suddenly, I have a newfound appreciation for the elezen walking animation and how other female races move in this game in general.

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It's a Masculine Manly Male Men game for Masculine Manly Male Men and that's why ppl play it instead of logging in to play Feminine Final Fantasy, so it's the perfect female animation for Men by Men. That's how ladies walk in Masculine games

Excuse me but have you seen the men in Lost Ark?

The reality is FFXIV has fallen off in popularity after this many months of EW, and the initial WoW refugee/streamer surge from last year. After burning through expansions worth of content, there really isn't anything exciting left to do. It's a given that something like Lost Ark will scoop up so many players, and I see this game being high up there in terms of popular mmorpgs (specifically Korean), especially with a company like Amazon backing it - regardless of how they handled New World so far.

It hasn't fallen off anywhere near as much as people think, and most of the WoW refugees are still subjecting the game to their presence. As for Lost Ark, it's got a lot flaws that the majority of people that have tried it are very vocal about. It has a very low retention rate and is highly unlikely to offer any kind of actual competition to other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

It hasn't fallen off anywhere near as much as people think, and most of the WoW refugees are still subjecting the game to their presence. As for Lost Ark, it's got a lot flaws that the majority of people that have tried it are very vocal about. It has a very low retention rate and is highly unlikely to offer any kind of actual competition to other MMOs.

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Many of these WoW refugees actually want to just go back to WoW. I have seen a lot of hope in regards to the Microsoft acquisition, the next expansion (Dragon Isles or something), and the future in general.

On that I can't disagree. Many of them do want to go back, but they are choosing to remain until they see if the Microsoft acquisition is a boon rather than the bane common knowledge says it is.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

On that I can't disagree. Many of them do want to go back, but they are choosing to remain until they see if the Microsoft acquisition is a boon rather than the bane common knowledge says it is.

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I play both games every now and then, and I was a full time WoW player before FF XIV came along, but I too am waiting to see if they finally learn something beneficial for everyone involved. Just about everything I've seen in regards to 9.2 so far tells me they haven't yet, so I will wait a bit longer. Not like I'm missing out on much at this point. New raid? Rewards kinda suck. New zone? Same thing. Rewards are pretty underwhelming there as well. And the story...good lord. I'm pretty sure it's one of the worst I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I play both games every now and then, and I was a full time WoW player before FF XIV came along, but I too am waiting to see if they finally learn something beneficial for everyone involved. Just about everything I've seen in regards to 9.2 so far tells me they haven't yet, so I will wait a bit longer. Not like I'm missing out on much at this point. New raid? Rewards kinda suck. New zone? Same thing. Rewards are pretty underwhelming there as well. And the story...good lord. I'm pretty sure it's one of the worst I've ever seen.

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I played WoW on and off since 2005-2020. While part of me misses it, a larger part of me realizes that in order for that game to feel good and fun again there would almost have to be a hard reboot ARR style. There's just been too much going wrong for too long in WoW for me to go back unless there are -massive- changes, and I kinda doubt they can pull off the type of changes like that without a new engine/new game/reboot of the whole thing.

So while many do want to go back, I'm not really one of them. I've spent the past 2 years tooling around in various MMOs and decided to try FFXIV again after nearly 10 years away. I'm enjoying it, though I can tell my reflexes aren't what they used to be as I go through MSQ dungeons and raids.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The reality is FFXIV has fallen off in popularity after this many months of EW, and the initial WoW refugee/streamer surge from last year. After burning through expansions worth of content, there really isn't anything exciting left to do. It's a given that something like Lost Ark will scoop up so many players, and I see this game being high up there in terms of popular mmorpgs (specifically Korean), especially with a company like Amazon backing it - regardless of how they handled New World so far.

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and i'm awaiting to see what WoW does next
i want it so badly to have its own arr

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

The reality is FFXIV has fallen off in popularity after this many months of EW, and the initial WoW refugee/streamer surge from last year. After burning through expansions worth of content, there really isn't anything exciting left to do. It's a given that something like Lost Ark will scoop up so many players, and I see this game being high up there in terms of popular mmorpgs (specifically Korean), especially with a company like Amazon backing it - regardless of how they handled New World so far.

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I think it is better that way. FF14 can make grind that require you log in every single day for months, but you will eventually get burnout and might leave the game for good. I say a proper break during content drought is actually ideal to re-energize players with other games, so that they will come back when a new patch/expansion is launched with a refreshed mind.

Currently, I play FF14 a lot less than before. I basically just log in to cap weekly tome, and some other weekly challenges, run a Trust avatar to level them up once/day (or not even do it if I feel tired). I spend attention on some RPG maker games that I find scratching my itch nicely, and thinking of playing some RPGs. I still stay subbing though, cuz of my house, and cuz though I play less, I still want to do things leisurely toward my goals. While I have some interest in Lost Ark, I'm a bit tired to commit to another MMORPG, so I just obverse it from the sideline for now.

If it is a Korean MMORPG, I would be required to log in at least a few hours/day to earn the daily login rewards, then spend two hours to grind dailies on my main, then another one-two hours to grind dailies on my alts to funnel mains. Throwing in one to two more hours if I have weeklies or events to deal with. Yeah, it is like 4-5 hours/day to have meaningful progression. Playing other games? Hah, perish the thought.

Lost Ark or not, it isn't necessary to be a FF14/WoW killer. They can co-exist nicely, offering players more MMORPG choices to play when FF14 is waiting for a new patch and they run out of things to do.

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I would be required to log in at least a few hours/day to earn the daily login rewards, then spend two hours to grind dailies on my main, then another one-two hours to grind dailies on my alts to funnel mains. Throwing in one to two more hours if I have weeklies or events to deal with. Yeah, it is like 4-5 hours/day to have meaningful progression. Playing other games? Hah, perish the thought.

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Hmm, I think Destiny 2 may be a Korean MMORPG...

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

Hmm, I think Destiny 2 may be a Korean MMORPG...

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Do you got leave behind if you miss a few days in Destiny 2?

Does Destiny 2 turn every female costume/armour into some bikini and follow the rule of “the more skimpy the stronger defence”, does it have super high heel that you can feel the pain just looking a character walking on it let alone fighting on it.

If not I am afraid there are still a lot to learn for Destiny 2 to become “Korean MMO”

After playing Lost Ark, I can immediately say 10 things that SE devs should at least learn from them in order to make FF14 much better. Lost Ark solved a lot of issue that people bring up on FF14's forum. I was really surprised on this part. I do not think Lost Ark will replace FF14, it will just offering MMORPG player another options. But when you go try out another game, you will easily see what happen to current issue with FF14, and able to give better and more structured comments rather than being toxic and attack other player's thoughts

Lost Ark is a very different game that at its core will attract a very different type of player who only came to FFXIV in the first place because there were no other viable options. They ultimately wouldn't have been happy here for the long term anyway.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

and i'm awaiting to see what WoW does next
i want it so badly to have its own arr

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Shadowlands was the best chance to do that.

Let the Jailer win somewhat and this would allow them to do massive changes to the game.

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Originally Posted by zabu

After playing Lost Ark, I can immediately say 10 things that SE devs should at least learn from them in order to make FF14 much better. Lost Ark solved a lot of issue that people bring up on FF14's forum. I was really surprised on this part. I do not think Lost Ark will replace FF14, it will just offering MMORPG player another options. But when you go try out another game, you will easily see what happen to current issue with FF14, and able to give better and more structured comments rather than being toxic and attack other player's thoughts

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Lost Ark is great until you start pushing into Post max level stuff. The grind ramps up heavily and Cash Shop users have a MASSIVE advantage in resources, time management, and options such as more slots and the such. It only spirals after that.

If you're hardcore in Lost Ark then you have no choice but to spend a lot of $$ in it.

Casual players will get burned out hard by that end game grind if nothing is done.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

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I take frequent breaks from FFXIV. I mean, I usually stay subbed (especially since I got my house), and log in from time to time to do events, but that isn't really what I consider being invested into the game. I really only 'play' FFXIV for a few months of every year. Otherwise, I am off doing something else. In terms of gaming, Lost Ark has had me playing it everyday - all day - since launch. Granted, I haven't hit that grind paywall yet - I'd rather not judge it until I have tried it properly. Game is enjoyable, and the story picks up quite well, after a bit into it. I'll have to see.

I feel like that would be an issue with Lost Ark... at least, I absolutely hate games that expect me to login every day or I fall behind.

Day 5 of logging into an empty game. I feel so alone right now, there is no one around me, the game feels so barren and empty, the only sound I hear is the ambient noise of the rain.

Maybe I should turn of my Orchestration in my Cottage and go outside and think about furnishing my house.