Please fix the “naked queueing” for Aliance Raids

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Originally Posted by Mhiro

I was pleasantly surprised when I did Alliance roulette the past few days. Not once did I get a CT raid. I got Nier twice, Void Ark once and Ivalice a few times. I personally blame it on requiring CT for MSQ but I also greatly dislike those who exploit this. I've always believed those who click on the roulette should be required to be the minimum ilvl of the first in the highest series raids they can access. For example if you're starting RPR/SGE at 70, the Alliance roulette wont allow you in unless you're at minimum ilvl or higher for Rabanastre. If you're 60, same deal except the required ilvl would be the minimum for Void Ark.

That would eliminate the ability to exploit just a bit.

In addition though, dont yall think since CT is required for MSQ that it should be moved to MSQ roulette? Just sayin.

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They have been funneling us into CT for years, even long before it was made a requirement for the MSQ. A lot of people are just...over it.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Here is a very easy fix I made during my lunch break and I'm neither a game developer nor a multimillion company:

- If job level > 50 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 50
- If job level > 60 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 175
- If job level > 70 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 305
- If job level > 80 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 435

That way, every expansion milestone you guarantee that the player will at least have to queue for the 1st raid of that expansion + all previous raids.

Since this topic is from way back in 2020 and nothing has been done about this very easy to fix in 10 minute problem we just have to assume the devs don't care about this and exploiting the system is allowed.

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This will also give incentive for people to unlock the raids too especially if a larger bonus is given for doing higher level raids.

^ Oh shut up with that.

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Originally Posted by kejakalope

It's not "cheese," it's one player hijacking the entire queue and making decisions for 23 others. I gave up on queueing for Puppet Bunker tonight (wanted to run for glamours) after waiting 37 minutes tonight because of this shit.

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It's an old raid now so a lot less people are running it - just like you, it's just for glam now and the majority of people already got everything from there. It doesn't really have anything to do with CT cheesers.

considering it's in the roulette and still has extremely lengthy cues because a ton of potential candidates are just... not able to be picked for it, that's exactly the issue.

I don't cheese it with ilvl and idk any that do. Plenty people the same as me. Not really worth posting about, if people don't wanna do the longer ones that is their business.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

- If job level > 60 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 175
- If job level > 70 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 305

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Im level 74 and still in HW. So i dont think that purely going for job lvl is the solution. I would at least take the MSQ level to set a cap on this. So in my case im considered lvl60, because i simply cant get anything better for any event i can do anyway (even if i have better gear, its always going to be capped).

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

Single queuing for a raid to get a glam is NOT the same thing as exploiting the ilvl requirement for the ROULETTE to get into a raid so you get your rewards faster.

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I am confused what the actual problem is?

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

I can’t believe people are seriously defending this

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It's because you're not even making a strong argument. The most probable cause for long queue times is not enough people do the content or maybe you should switch your class from DPS to Healer/Tank to make queue times shorter for you?

If I just want the exp then why would I want to waste an hour+ goofing around in nier raids. Not getting q pop? Form in pf.

From my anecdotes, when I started paying attention, I noticed about 1/3rd of my Syrcus tower/Labyrinth runs had someone reequipping gear causing their health to spike from near empty to full.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

From my anecdotes, when I started paying attention, I noticed about 1/3rd of my Syrcus tower/Labyrinth runs had someone reequipping gear causing their health to spike from near empty to full.

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I'm sure there are also a lot of new players trying to get through the CT raids as well. World of Darkness was my daily raid today and there was a new player bonus at the beginning. So while I think that there are those who are cheesing the queue, there are also a fair number of players who are doing it for the first time. Since it's a bit of a roadblock to get into Shadowbringers it's not surprising that CT queues are made a bit more common by default.

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Originally Posted by SonjaRampage

If I just want the exp then why would I want to waste an hour+ goofing around in nier raids. Not getting q pop? Form in pf.

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The whole point of the roulette is to fill the spots in raids that aren't filling. Thats why they exist. Because there are so many now. By unequipping items to force your ilvl lower to only do CT, you're removing the purpose of doing the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

From my anecdotes, when I started paying attention, I noticed about 1/3rd of my Syrcus tower/Labyrinth runs had someone reequipping gear causing their health to spike from near empty to full.

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Did you also pay attention to the message about first time completetion bonus? If yes, what was your experience?

I also fully support this. SE PLEASE do something about this I just saw someone the other day naked and reapplying their gear.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

The whole point of the roulette is to fill the spots in raids that aren't filling. Thats why they exist. Because there are so many now. By unequipping items to force your ilvl lower to only do CT, you're removing the purpose of doing the roulette.

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But at the same time you could get Labyrinth or Syrus, which take about 15-20 mins a run, vs stuff like Dun Scaith, Puppet's Bunker, and Orbonne, which take at least 40-60 minutes not counting any wipes that have a high likelihood to occur

I don't unequip items myself, but it's hard to blame the people who instaleave when you get queued into a raid where a large chunk of people don't know how to do raid mechanics and end up dying constantly, and even if everyone was competent and never died the raid would still take a much longer time than the 50 raids

I just want them to scale the roulette reward to the ilvl your character has equipped when joining the queue.

That way if you’re level 80 in a queue with intentionally limited gear you can certainly force a pop of crystal tower, but you’re going to get a trivial amount of experience and tomestones for completion.

If you want to make use of the roulette bonus, then you should be geared to clear any alliance raid appropriate for your level.

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

The whole point of the roulette is to fill the spots in raids that aren't filling. Thats why they exist. Because there are so many now. By unequipping items to force your ilvl lower to only do CT, you're removing the purpose of doing the roulette.

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If you are trying to do a specific 24man you won't be doing it through roulette anyways so again I am confused what the problem exactly is. If you are trying to get a specific drop from E2 would you join the raid roulette?
People doing this are simply trying to get there alliance roulette done faster for xp. The only way this would actually affect the game is if more players were taking off there gear than aren't which I doubt is the case and if it is evidence would need to be shown.

So over all the complaint is extremely petty, if you are that concerned then report people for it and see what SE has to say about it if anything.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I don't unequip items myself, but it's hard to blame the people who instaleave when you get queued into a raid where a large chunk of people don't know how to do raid mechanics and end up dying constantly, and even if everyone was competent and never died the raid would still take a much longer time than the 50 raids

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You say that like people know the mechanics of the CT raids. So many deaths get witnessed in there all the time.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

You say that like people know the mechanics of the CT raids. So many deaths get witnessed in there all the time.

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Nothing like half the raid dying, if not an outright wipe, in the first trash of WoD because not a single tank, ranged, or melee bothered to interrupt/stun the chimeras

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Originally Posted by RhaesDaenys

The whole point of the roulette is to fill the spots in raids that aren't filling. Thats why they exist. Because there are so many now. By unequipping items to force your ilvl lower to only do CT, you're removing the purpose of doing the roulette.

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The point of the roulette for me is to get exp, I really don't care to sit thru multiple wipes because players refuse to learn the mechanics for harder raids. If I could somehow un-unlock the extra raids I for sure would.

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Originally Posted by SonjaRampage

The point of the roulette for me is to get exp, I really don't care to sit thru multiple wipes because players refuse to learn the mechanics for harder raids. If I could somehow un-unlock the extra raids I for sure would.

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Roulettes serve multiple purposes. Exp is only one of those things. A roulette should be just that. A roulette. Random. The CT item level cheesing isn't something I can really get behind. These are strange times when I'm actually excited to see the likes of Dun Scaith.

Delete CT raids or take them away for alliance raids roulette, seriously my mind can't take more of them after 500000 runs.

Even if you were to remove the ilvl 'cheesing' you really aren't helping much of anything. You're likely to just see less people actually do the roulette. I've actually done it when I didn't have sufficient playtime to risk an hour long raid, but still wanted to get my daily complete. I really don't see the problem with it.

Acting like 1 person removing gear to get the lower raid is causing you to get it is pretty disingenuous, there's many that only have CT raids unlocked, or are only 50+ the reality is that the person removing their gear is merely securing their position in that raid, not yours. And if the argument is it takes longer for the raid of your choice to fill, then you are in favor of forcing players into your raid, which is the same as what you claim these players are doing to you.

You are highly unlikely to see any notable difference in the raids that are common already even were such a thing implemented.

"Easy fix" just make it so you can't queue into a roulette with gear slots being empty. In quotes because spaghetti code isn't so easily fixed. And could still be cheesed with lower level gear, but at that point they're wasting inventory space or gil to repeatedly buy low level gear.

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Originally Posted by SonjaRampage

Even if you were to remove the ilvl 'cheesing' you really aren't helping much of anything. You're likely to just see less people actually do the roulette. I've actually done it when I didn't have sufficient playtime to risk an hour long raid, but still wanted to get my daily complete. I really don't see the problem with it.

Acting like 1 person removing gear to get the lower raid is causing you to get it is pretty disingenuous, there's many that only have CT raids unlocked, or are only 50+ the reality is that the person removing their gear is merely securing their position in that raid, not yours. And if the argument is it takes longer for the raid of your choice to fill, then you are in favor of forcing players into your raid, which is the same as what you claim these players are doing to you.

You are highly unlikely to see any notable difference in the raids that are common already even were such a thing implemented.

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Oh please, like you're going to see people turn down a large chunk of exp and a X materia and 2 IX materia tokens you can get for being the role in need. People still do MSQ for the tomestones, so believing people will stop doing AR roulette is incredibly naive.

at this point I wish CT was on its own goddamn roulette. I love CT, have loved it since ARR, but I love the other raids too, and people scamming the system so they can get 20% of a bar for AFKing while their cat walks across their keyboard and a dozen hyper-overpowered synched down characters carry them has completely ruined the roulette centered on my favorite content in the game

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Delete CT raids or take them away for alliance raids roulette, seriously my mind can't take more of them after 500000 runs.

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Then the poor sprouts who have to do CT raids for MSQ will have huge wait times, if they fill at all.

Take registered gear iLv to character level ratio into account when calculating the reward.

I genuinely feel like the issue with CT being the only thing to show up has much, much less to do with people ilvl cheesing, and more to do with the fact it is the only AR required for the MSQ, alongside the fact that it is the lowest level/in the base game requiring no expansions. It is just the one that more people have unlocked/access to, and until SE makes the others required for MSQ, it is always going to be that way. In sheer numbers on who as access to it, CT is just always going to be most likely to come up. People need more incentive to unlock the other raids, that would help significantly.

I seriously have not seen people ilvl cheesing, and I run Alliance raids almost daily. It is hard to believe it is really happening that often, or that a large number of people are really doing it to such a degree it is effecting queues. What is more likely the problem is that people just don't have other ARs unlocked for one reason or another, either because they are not leveled, lack the expansion with the content, or they just simply do not like those raids.

Other than on characters I want the relic weapon on, I actively avoid Ivalice because I dislike those raids so much. I will happily take CT any day over getting the Monastery and wiping on Thunder God a half dozen times because people refuse to listen to mechanics. Worrying about ilvl cheesing just feels like a distraction from the actual issues that could/should be addressed to balance out/mix up the AR roulette.

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Originally Posted by AriesMouse

It is hard to believe it is really happening that often, or that a large number of people are really doing it to such a degree it is effecting queues.

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People have been doing it for a long, long time. Way before FF XIV's popularity really took off. I don't see it every time I zone into CT (which is basically every day), granted I don't exactly look for it either. But I know that it's a pretty common thing. Over the course of this year, however, I think a lot of those "cheesers" are being replaced by legitimate first timers a fair amount of the time. But they are still out and about doing what they do. It's just masked pretty well recently. It might not seem like much amongst the near endless tide of new players, but they are still compounding the issue that some people have with this particular roulette.

I would like to farm some glamour gear from Puppet's Bunker.

I am now 26 minutes into what was originally predicted to be a 10 minute queue, because people keep diverting all the groups into Crystal Tower.

This badly needs to get fixed in 6.1. Desperately. It's absurd that selfish people have been allowed to abuse this system for so long.

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Originally Posted by AriesMouse

I genuinely feel like the issue with CT being the only thing to show up has much, much less to do with people ilvl cheesing, and more to do with the fact it is the only AR required for the MSQ, alongside the fact that it is the lowest level/in the base game requiring no expansions. It is just the one that more people have unlocked/access to, and until SE makes the others required for MSQ, it is always going to be that way. In sheer numbers on who as access to it, CT is just always going to be most likely to come up. People need more incentive to unlock the other raids, that would help significantly.

I seriously have not seen people ilvl cheesing, and I run Alliance raids almost daily. It is hard to believe it is really happening that often, or that a large number of people are really doing it to such a degree it is effecting queues. What is more likely the problem is that people just don't have other ARs unlocked for one reason or another, either because they are not leveled, lack the expansion with the content, or they just simply do not like those raids.

Other than on characters I want the relic weapon on, I actively avoid Ivalice because I dislike those raids so much. I will happily take CT any day over getting the Monastery and wiping on Thunder God a half dozen times because people refuse to listen to mechanics. Worrying about ilvl cheesing just feels like a distraction from the actual issues that could/should be addressed to balance out/mix up the AR roulette.

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It was an epidemic level problem even by the end of Stormblood, before CT became mandatory and before the last two major waves of WoW refugees hit. The tidal wave of sprouts has badly exacerbated it, but I don't mind the sprouts. They're supposed to be there.

That said, the two factors in tandem have basically screwed Alliance Roulette completely. I really love doing Alliance Raids, and at present it's nearly impossible to get into any that have even a single mechanic that matters.

i agree. fix it. PLEASE!

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

People have been doing it for a long, long time. Way before FF XIV's popularity really took off. I don't see it every time I zone into CT (which is basically every day), granted I don't exactly look for it either. But I know that it's a pretty common thing. Over the course of this year, however, I think a lot of those "cheesers" are being replaced by legitimate first timers a fair amount of the time. But they are still out and about doing what they do. It's just masked pretty well recently. It might not seem like much amongst the near endless tide of new players, but they are still compounding the issue that some people have with this particular roulette.

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I won't argue and say that the cheesing doesn't happen, I can only speak for my own experience though and say that I just have never personally seen it first hand in years(not since mid SB), nor have I heard about it in group, or among friends also running the roulette. Keep in mind, my first order of business upon loading into any 8 man content is to examine everyone in my party since I usually just comm whoever has the glamor I like most. I have yet to spot someone in something that didn't suit their level.

Maybe it's just weird luck that I've not run into it? Just makes it seem like of all the things to focus on in regards to what is causing problems with AR, ilvl cheesing is so minor. Getting people to unlock the other raids should be more of a focus, but instead people are fixating on what feels like a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.


As a side note, I am now wondering how often this happens with the Normal Raids roulette as well.

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Originally Posted by AriesMouse

I won't argue and say that the cheesing doesn't happen, I can only speak for my own experience though and say that I just have never personally seen it first hand in years(not since mid SB), nor have I heard about it in group, or among friends also running the roulette. Keep in mind, my first order of business upon loading into any 8 man content is to examine everyone in my party since I usually just comm whoever has the glamor I like most. I have yet to spot someone in something that didn't suit their level.

Maybe it's just weird luck that I've not run into it? Just makes it seem like of all the things to focus on in regards to what is causing problems with AR, ilvl cheesing is so minor. Getting people to unlock the other raids should be more of a focus, but instead people are fixating on what feels like a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.


As a side note, I am now wondering how often this happens with the Normal Raids roulette as well.

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You can't "see" it. The people you see entering naked and gearing back up are just the few that don't understand that you don't have to wait to be inside to put your gear back on. The roulette decides what raid you can do at the moment you queue up. So you can just disrobe, queue, and gear back up straight after. By the time the queue pop and you get into the raid, nothing will show that you cheesed.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

You can't "see" it. The people you see entering naked and gearing back up are just the few that don't understand that you don't have to wait to be inside to put your gear back on. The roulette decides what raid you can do at the moment you queue up. So you can just disrobe, queue, and gear back up straight after. By the time the queue pop and you get into the raid, nothing will show that you cheesed.

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This is genuinely helpful context that I was not aware of.

Still doesn't really help figure out the actual % of people doing said cheesing unfortunately.

Yeah I sure do love getting Dun Scaith and wiping twice at the first boss to either the enrage, knockbacks or doom's and get the same amount of exp I'd get for a run of ST which takes 1/3 of the time, incredible experience :^)
Just increase the exp yield of newer raids so that people are less inclined to cheese the ilvl. But even in this case I'd say that either
1. less people will queue for the alliance raids roulette
2. when people get the CT raids they'd just leave to requeue as this is what happens many times already at the start of Castrum Meridianum

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Originally Posted by Nyarlha

You can't "see" it. The people you see entering naked and gearing back up are just the few that don't understand that you don't have to wait to be inside to put your gear back on. The roulette decides what raid you can do at the moment you queue up. So you can just disrobe, queue, and gear back up straight after. By the time the queue pop and you get into the raid, nothing will show that you cheesed.

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Nah, most people who cheese ILVL aren't that focused on regearing up immediately. I have met people who did the Ilvl cheese. It didn't really matter though, because 9 times out of 10, there's someone new to the duty in the party - and it requires only one person who needs an alliance raid in one of the 3 parties to bring 23 other people in alliance roulette into it, regardless of max iLVL. This is a very common occurrence in ARR Alliance raids because they are mandatory for the MSQ.

Occasionally, you'll see Dun Scaith and Void Ark too because the new surge of players are unlocking side content for the first time. More recently, I've been getting a lot more Ivalice raids like Rabanstre, which tells me people are going to be doing Bozja again eventually too. These queues, from what I noticed, usually happen in waves and batches at a time. This is pretty much anecdotal experience, but I'd say it's fairly accurate at least, since I've been spamming Alliance Roulette Raid, multiple times each day at times to help FC members do them long after I completed mine for the day.

Even if there was no one new, you could also just get a lower level alliance raid. It follows the same pattern of leveling dungeons - even if the 4 party members is above lv 70, you can queue into leveling roulette and still be put into Lv 15 Satasha dungeon if you don't have a premade of 4 with the limited leveling roulette setting turned on.

Diversity usually happens most often when relics get released and requires a specific alliance raid to get a drop. I wouldn't stress about it too much.

SE should do both of the following:

1. Increase the incentives of doing the higher level raids. Right now there is no incentive to do it, we're all just doing it for the roulette bonus. But the higher level ones come with more wipes and a longer run, so nobody wants to do it. Just buff the XP. In fact I want the CT ones because they give me stuff for my relic while the higher level ones do not. Maybe more relic items should drop from the higher level ones?

2. Add an option to set the ilvl we join the roulettes at. Players are going to go naked anyway, so just add an option to do it officially. If someone wants a lower ilvl just let them select a lower ilvl.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

SE should do both of the following:

1. Increase the incentives of doing the higher level raids..

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Yes long overdue.