Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

People still quoting me pages and pages later, wow, get a new hobby.

Don't like that I help scrubs ? then either close your eyes or move on.

I do what I want to do, not what you want me to do.

Nobody owes anyone an education on fight mechanics, I CHOOSE to help idiots because I WANT TO, you can either be a little scrub and receive help or be a quality person and offer assistance.

And yes, not wanting to contribute to the solution fundamentally makes you a part of THE PROBLEM.

Why are you all scared of receiving a rude response for offering help and I'm not ? probably because my responses pack quite a bit more punch than anything a constantly dieing scrub can muster.

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It's not we are scared really. We just stopped bothering. Negative reinforcement ya know. Also if your responses pack as much "punch" as you claim, you can easily be reported and suspended.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

If you dont like the people are end up in a party with you have many options

2. Blacklist or Block so you are not in a party with them again

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Not quite:
While blacklisted players cannot join your PF groups, they can still be sorted into DF parties with you.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Why are you all scared of receiving a rude response for offering help and I'm not ? probably because my responses pack quite a bit more punch than anything a constantly dieing scrub can muster.

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If someone responds to my attempts to assist with a response clearly indicating help is not welcome: "EFF OFF! I'M NOT SPEEDRUNNING FOR YOU!".. Then I'm done. I can either remove myself from the situation or shut up and deal with sub-optimal teammates. I'm not scared, or being a part of the problem. I TRIED, which was already more than I'm obligated to do.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

People still quoting me pages and pages later, wow, get a new hobby.

Don't like that I help scrubs ? then either close your eyes or move on.

I do what I want to do, not what you want me to do.

Nobody owes anyone an education on fight mechanics, I CHOOSE to help idiots because I WANT TO, you can either be a little scrub and receive help or be a quality person and offer assistance.

And yes, not wanting to contribute to the solution fundamentally makes you a part of THE PROBLEM.

Why are you all scared of receiving a rude response for offering help and I'm not ? probably because my responses pack quite a bit more punch than anything a constantly dieing scrub can muster.

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LOLWHAT?

Oof.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Standard should just be what's more efficient. That's how it works on every other game and is why we have "pug strats" for PF.

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and it is kind of subjective, I mean up to which point should we consider efficient and which point is below efficient
everyone have their own judgement, one scenario might be efficient enough for a set of group, and the other group might only consider the top 1% first clear raid efficient as standard

I mean I have standards and havent been arrested so its got to be you my man.

I suppose it's a bit of an over-correction to the WoW community where it's not unusual to tell the rest of the group to kill themselves at the slightest sign of difficulty.

If you were criticized for giving helpful advice that's unfortunate, but given the choice of the two I much prefer the FFXIV community.

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Originally Posted by Reeereee

I suppose it's a bit of an over-correction to the WoW community where it's not unusual to tell the rest of the group to kill themselves at the slightest sign of difficulty.

If you were criticized for giving helpful advice that's unfortunate, but given the choice of the two I much prefer the FFXIV community.

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Yeah I think I'll take ffxiv even though i still don't like interacting with people ingame (thought thats just a personal issue)


My ex gms screaming tantrums would probably be enough to convert anyone, had I bothered to record them.

The Mogtomes event really made this super clear in PvP modes. People don't try at all, Rival Wings or Frontlines they just don't. I'm honestly over that already but if you try and make calls and tell people not to jump off the cliff into a trap in Shatter, suddenly they'll start insulting you, calling you "tryhard" or saying you care too much. I don't point out that you care so little so why ain't you showing me the same respect ? Instead they'll cry cry cry that you are caring too much and use "tryhard" like it's an insult. Hmm ? Why is that the case ?

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Because despite the calls of "toxic elitists" - in reality, there is no one more toxic than the casual playerbase.

Especially on this forum.

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thank you, this is exactly true

Honestly I think people exaggerate how bad the average player is. Maybe it's my DC (Primal), but I rarely run into glue eaters and even those I've found are more often than not willing to learn and listen. Mind you, I'm still going through SB so it might change later.

It's a crime to hold anybody to any sort of standard in this game for the same reason that you should remove any man or woman above the age of 25 from your life if they say they are not political or religious. It means they don't want to be held accountable to any sort of objective standard of morality, conduct and behavior. They just want to do whatever they like, whenever they like, and frankly you're the heckin evil nazirino for trying to tell them otherwise - even if it's good for them. They're going to be angry, bitter, sad, unhappy and alone and they are going to drag you down with them.

Standards are fine until they're being forced on other people. I've seen plenty of tanks try to demand their healer play a certain way and vise versa. I don't think this is some 1 sided issue.
I do wonder though, who decides what is "standard"?

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

Why are standards a crime? Why do people think it's acceptable to waste everyone's time by wiping a raid repeatedly and when offered advice they respond with toxicity?

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In short?
Because of the fakenice mentality that goes around in this game in general.
Be it fear of GMs actually punishing bad behavior, or some other thing(s), that's the main reason.
Everyone seems to put on a fake nice mask, and hide their true feelings/intentions for the most part, in a way that's very easy to tell. It's very easy to tell it's done just to avoid punishment rather than to be genuinely nice.
Compare it to other MMOs where they're very openly but honestly toxic, and the difference is night and day. Moreover, in toxic games, genuine kindness goes way further than in this game, filled with tons of fake nice people that only wanna toot their own horn and appear to be kind.

I'm not saying there aren't kind people in this game, far from it, but a good chunk of the playerbase very visibly 'forces' themselves to 'appear' nice. From this, everything else you mention stems. They're "nice" until you say something they don't like, then they take off their mask and show their true toxic colors.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Standards are fine until they're being forced on other people. I've seen plenty of tanks try to demand their healer play a certain way and vise versa. I don't think this is some 1 sided issue.
I do wonder though, who decides what is "standard"?

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The game does. Square Enix does.

Orange marker = bad. People stand in the orange markers, but you learn early on it's bad. Wall 2 wall pulls are pretty standardized, I've mentioned this in another thread; there's always 2 packs of mobs before you hit a wall, and it's repeated over and over again. SE made this a standard, people fighting against this tend to be the most toxic players out there (in my experience so far, and no, new players don't count). 2 minutes metas is a standard made by CBU3. Healer's requirement to DPS is also a standard made by CBU3, because if if weren't, we'd actually see healers actually heal rather than press the same button for 20 minutes.

Game enables mediocrity and you will be ostracized and criticized for speaking against it. The majority of casual players are part of the same toxic cesspool, but they point their fingers at others for the same issues they're creating.

Many times I have encountered players that don't even do their 123 combo, and still get to clear the dungeon. If people find this "normal" or a "standard" at one point, we're in deep trouble.

Whomever necro this from 4 YEARS ago should get temp banned

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

The game does. Square Enix does.

Orange marker = bad. People stand in the orange markers, but you learn early on it's bad. Wall 2 wall pulls are pretty standardized, I've mentioned this in another thread; there's always 2 packs of mobs before you hit a wall, and it's repeated over and over again. SE made this a standard, people fighting against this tend to be the most toxic players out there (in my experience so far, and no, new players don't count). 2 minutes metas is a standard made by CBU3. Healer's requirement to DPS is also a standard made by CBU3, because if if weren't, we'd actually see healers actually heal rather than press the same button for 20 minutes.

Game enables mediocrity and you will be ostracized and criticized for speaking against it. The majority of casual players are part of the same toxic cesspool, but they point their fingers at others for the same issues they're creating.

Many times I have encountered players that don't even do their 123 combo, and still get to clear the dungeon. If people find this "normal" or a "standard" at one point, we're in deep trouble.

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If so I don't recall SE saying wall to wall is the standard. Player force that on other players and often berate or kick if they don't adhere to it. Many here have admitted as such.
All this "you'll be criticized for speaking out against mediocrity" stuff just makes little sense to me. Can people respond bad to this stuff? Oh for sure. But I've been playing for years and been a mentor for much of it and have had this happen maybe 5 times. I've said many times here approach matters the most when it comes to these things. Many people say you can't speak, many people have no issues so that tells me there's a variable there one side might be missing.

Most casuals in my experience don't say much outside of hi or making jokes so idk how much that actually translates to the entire playerbase. Lastly you just claimed SE makes the standard no? So if players are able to get by in dungeons without even doing basic 123 combos (which I bet isn't most players) they're keeping to the standard SE set are they not? That literally means per SE that IS normal.
What you're advocating for is player made standard not SE standard. And with SEs standard player standard doesn't hold solid weight. Do I want to be with 1 button Cure 2 healers? Not really no, but they're keeping me up and thats all that's really required of them per how SE has designed the game/set the standard. Just how it is

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Whomever necro this from 4 YEARS ago should get temp banned

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Had no idea this was a necro post lol

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Originally Posted by Anonemoose

It's a crime to hold anybody to any sort of standard in this game for the same reason that you should remove any man or woman above the age of 25 from your life if they say they are not political or religious.

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I don't need a fairy tale to be my guiding star.

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Originally Posted by Darkobra

I don't need a fairy tale to be my guiding star.

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Feeling a bit euphoric are we?

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Did or did I not say some take this bad? Let's not inflate a few bad situations with all or most of the playerbase.

W2W is standardized by players. ARR dungeons don't just let you run from start to boss. Hell Aurum Vale the infamous worst dungeon in ARR has walls in place til things like Malboros are killed.
The mobs are split up in the current day and can't be taken care of as is. Hell many trust runs are done fighting one mob at a time. SE not once says you HAVE to pull w2w. SE doesn't stop you or give you less for single mobs. Dame for it not giving you less for sticking to one button in dungeons. Pull that crap in Savage and that's your ass because the standard for Savage is different than Dungeons. You're right this isn't rocket science so I'd think you'd understand the difference. Also the silent folks are rpers? And we know this...how?

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SE can't even program properly some things in the game without it crumbling like a sandcastle getting kicked by a toddler, so of course they can't program their own AI to use aoes on packs in trust or squadron. Don't bring savage into this discussion because we're talking about casual content, meaning dungeons that anybody can run. Savage is just a bad example you've put there and is a poor comparison.

Also, RPers don't come to forums to complain about anything, and in most cases they're more than fine with the current gameplay mechanics.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

Whomever necro this from 4 YEARS ago should get temp banned

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I'm sure they will considering its was done by you know who's newest alt.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

The Mogtomes event really made this super clear in PvP modes. People don't try at all, Rival Wings or Frontlines they just don't. I'm honestly over that already but if you try and make calls and tell people not to jump off the cliff into a trap in Shatter, suddenly they'll start insulting you, calling you "tryhard" or saying you care too much. I don't point out that you care so little so why ain't you showing me the same respect ? Instead they'll cry cry cry that you are caring too much and use "tryhard" like it's an insult. Hmm ? Why is that the case ?

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"Soldiers arise!
Stand and fight!
Bring VICTORY at last!
To this fallen knight!
A-HAHAHAHA!!!!"

Titan, you need to find a game - any game - with a Necromancer class. You'd be the best one on on the server.

When the game is absent from challenge and adversity, people need to make their own fun

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Originally Posted by Crystal_Raven

I see this often, and personally I find this whole thing rather disgusting and obnoxious.

Having standards for players seems to a crime among this community and you will only be met with insults and overall terrible and toxic behaviour.

For example, it's rather standard to expect a level 70 tank player to understand Enmity and how it works. Yet I meet an insane amount of level 70 tank only players that do not understand the basics of enmity and how to hold aggro.

Another example is with the AoE mechanics aka the orange markers. I encounter many people that stand in them at levels 50+ because they don't realize that orange marker = bad.

It's completely mind boggling that this is considered acceptable by a large part of the community.

Those same people, if you criticize their actions because they don't understand basic game mechanics at pretty high levels if not max level itself, respond with insults, toxicity, "you don't pay my sub", "i'm new so i'm entitled to wiping raids because im learning", "i play how i want to", "you don't control my account" and so on.

And if you don't say anything to them, you get called a toxic elitist for choosing not to help them.

In the vast majority of other MMOs, if you are a bad player, you will be called a bad player, people will try to help, you are given the opportunity to improve and stop being a bad player.

In FF14, if you are a bad player, you cannot be criticized because the other person can report you for harassment and you'll probably get a warning under the new rules they implemented, and if you don't help them you get called a toxic elitist anyway.

Why is it such a crime to have actual STANDARDS in this game? No one is asking anyone to be the top 1%, or outright the top player in the world, however I would say it should be a very normal and common thing to expect high level players to understand at least the BASICS of combat and their class. Currently this fact is treated by the community like you just committed a war crime.

Why are standards a crime? Why do people think it's acceptable to waste everyone's time by wiping a raid repeatedly and when offered advice they respond with toxicity? This is a pretty common thing, and i find it mind boggling.

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well lets be honest 99% of orange makers does like nothing to players, so most of the time there is little point bothering with it, when you can just shrug it off pop a healing ability of your own or potion because it only does like 1k-2k dmg and that is nothing at the levels there are. honestly the way to fix that right there is to make the aoe damage markers do more status effects and damage wise.

the thing is most content in this entire game it doesn't matter what players do a dungeon is still easily cleared by standing in every aoe, even playing a healer I actually beg for people to stand in those orange aoes because it gives me something to HEAL..

I wouldn't say its a crime, but why act like it matters when in the vast majority of the game it doesn't because they refuse to make things an actual challenge all the orange dmg does so little to players unless every single monster places the same orange in the same spot its meaningless to waste time with it. a lot of people just shrug it off myself include because whats the point their is a serious lack of reason to give 100% in any content that isn't ex or savage and that is sadly the truth because the devs developed the game where you don't have to give a damn in battle unless its ex or savage

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Originally Posted by Daddyslittlevampire

well lets be honest 99% of orange makers does like nothing to players, so most of the time there is little point bothering with it, when you can just shrug it off pop a healing ability of your own or potion because it only does like 1k-2k dmg and that is nothing at the levels there are. honestly the way to fix that right there is to make the aoe damage markers do more status effects and damage wise.

the thing is most content in this entire game it doesn't matter what players do a dungeon is still easily cleared by standing in every aoe, even playing a healer I actually beg for people to stand in those orange aoes because it gives me something to HEAL..

I wouldn't say its a crime, but why act like it matters when in the vast majority of the game it doesn't because they refuse to make things an actual challenge all the orange dmg does so little to players unless every single monster places the same orange in the same spot its meaningless to waste time with it. a lot of people just shrug it off myself include because whats the point their is a serious lack of reason to give 100% in any content that isn't ex or savage and that is sadly the truth because the devs developed the game where you don't have to give a damn in battle unless its ex or savage

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Exactly, you can AFK and just press Cure 2 on yourself in 80% of the trials and survive.