Would you like an in-game parser?

I use a parser to practice my opener so I know I'm doing it right. I still mess it up 80% of the time. Why is Dragoon so hard?

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Originally Posted by Krissey

I use a parser to practice my opener so I know I'm doing it right. I still mess it up 80% of the time. Why is Dragoon so hard?

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The button bloat in this game is a huge problem. It makes a lot of classes much harder than they should be. I REFUSE to do anymore raiding until SE fixes it. I haven't had any fun with the classes at higher levels in this expansion. SE should make reasonable classes to play in hard encounters. Not the other way around.

what is a parser?

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Originally Posted by EsperPrimal

what is a parser?

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Simply, a Parser is an application that measures the amount of damage a player does over a specified period of time, which gives you your 'Damage per second.' That's the most base people use for it.

There are other applications of the most popular one - ACT - such as Healing per second, tracking how people used their cooldowns, seeing what kind of damage people died to (Great for seeing if there was lack of a Mitigative CD from a tank or if it was a shot-hit etc.)

Basically, it's a tool that measures and presents information in a cleaner and easier-to-digest manner than the Combat Log.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Simply, a Parser is an application that measures the amount of damage a player does over a specified period of time, which gives you your 'Damage per second.' That's the most base people use for it.

There are other applications of the most popular one - ACT - such as Healing per second, tracking how people used their cooldowns, seeing what kind of damage people died to (Great for seeing if there was lack of a Mitigative CD from a tank or if it was a shot-hit etc.)

Basically, it's a tool that measures and presents information in a cleaner and easier-to-digest manner than the Combat Log.

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Thank you I was kind of thinking a might be a DPS/HPS counter by some of the comments I read. I appreciate the info.

The amount of strawman in this thread is getting amusing, to say the least.

Here's an intentional strawman argument for you anti-parser posters:

The performance of an AST is completely dependent on the performance of the party members they are buffing. Buffs that give 10% more damage to a single target should obviously be applied to those doing the most damage. Because you don't support a group parser, you guys are intentionally preventing AST from performing at the same level and optimization as WHM and SCH because ASTs don't have the data available to gauge who their best DPS is in their current group to give these buffs too. You guys are telling ASTs "too bad, so sad, go play a different healer if you want to play at your best".

Okay, now that I've gotten that out of the way.

Most players who support a parser understand what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. For example:

1. [ACCEPTABLE] An i180 BRD joins a Bismark EX farm party. They wipe to Serpents on the first pull and after looking at the data, they determine this BRD is only doing 400-500 DPS. They see if they can make it work but because the BRD isn't pulling their weight, they leave, respectively tell the BRD that they should improve, and remove the BRD from the party.
   
2. [UNACCEPTABLE] An i170 MNK queues up for EXDR and gets put into their group. The parse shows the MNK is doing 1,000 DPS which is really good for someone who's new to the job and still of low ilvl to current standards. The SMN in the party who's i220 and rocking 2,000 DPS (when combining boss and trash numbers) starts to bad mouth the MNK about their numbers and initiates the boot. The MNK is then booted.

Most people understand that example #2 is grounds for harassment and should be reported and left to the GMs to deal with. There's no evidence to suggest that an introduction of a parser will suddenly increase the number of times example #2 will occur. And even if it does occur, report it and move on. We don't want that kind of toxicity in this game and if people can't keep their entitlement in check, they need to be punished for it.

At the topic of third party tools - Most players understand the a DPS measuring tool is not the same as a DPS (or any performance) enhancing tool. Things like Bots, Big Boss Mod, Trigger Callouts on ACT - these are all definitions of enhancement tools that directly change how the game is played.

A DPS meter doesn't play the game for the player. It gives the player data on their performance so they can adjust themselves and improves their performance. Note that the measuring tool itself doesn't suddenly make a player get instantly better. What it does is gives them a starting point to gauge where they are and they can experiment themselves to see how they can get that number to increase. The tool isn't playing the game for them or telling them "Do this so you don't die to that".

Every role in this game has to be able to perform. DPS unfortunately don't have a way to gauge that performance at this time. Again, most players playing this game understand that there is more to an individual's performance than their numbers. They also have to understand the mechanics of a fight and how to answer those mechanics while completing their primary role. If a DRG gets targeted by mechanics in a fight, their number will obviously be lower than if they were targeted zero times. What I'm trying to say is that the DPS measuring tool itself is just one piece of the puzzle that determines how well a DPS is performing and unfortunately that puzzle piece is hidden from view at this time.

[EDIT] Yes, I also understand that I contradict myself in some respects because a DPS meter would be an enhancement tool in the niche case of an AST. It's something I don't mind because without this tool, an AST really cannot perform at the same level as WHM or SCH and they would have to rely on a third party tool to do that.

[EDIT 2] Also, yes everyone's "standard of acceptance" will be different and while there are some extreme cases that are very obvious, there are also grey area cases that are much less obvious. This is also why I suggest S-E implement a minimal DPS requirement for all content if they were to introduce a DPS measuring tool so that the "standard of acceptance" is defined by the developer and not the player base. This should help stunt a large number of "grey area harassment" cases.

Totally agree with you. Last night I was in midas 4 and saw 2 dps with 210weapons. Okay they could done slightly more but then again the gear wasnt soo good, few 220 230 and 210 book. Then you have the 222mnk with 230 weapon doing 1.6. For me this was acceptable and I honestly rarely call out people in fight like that or dungeons. Whats not acceptable is when you have 230 weapon and 220plus ilvl and do less 600-700less than he should its a problem.

I absolutely do not want a parser. You can look at the history of other MMOs to see exactly what happens when parsers are embraced by the community or developers. It does not magically make people get better at the game or want to improve. All it does is widen the gap between “elitists” and “casuals” while making the playerbase as a whole more toxic.

But hey that’s exactly what pro-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF.

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Originally Posted by Eifahlwyn

But hey that’s exactly what pro-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF.

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I know this isn't game related but I will tell u regardles.
I work at one of the biggest companies in Norway and I'm a leader among with 4-5 others at that department we work at. Now, we recently had 2 guys appying and we tested them both. However one of them was doing shitbad, like propper bad. His excuse was because it's not needed to perform 100%, as bad that sounds we told him he has to search for another job, because when you work you are there to do it 100% not half ass.


To reply to your respons, if he was never bad I wouldn't call it out, but he was so it was needed. If people wasn't bad they would never got called out, so that's their own fault, not the c*unts you mention.

Another example this ninja ilvl 210 did 700 dps in bismarck and we never killed it, I told him he can be a lot better, at first he was a bit off, since he didn't know it was that bad. 1 week later after talking to my ninja friend, whos really good his dps incrased up to 950-1.2k dps. ON a dummy it incrased by 500 almost, insane isn't it? Now he never has ANYONE ''badmouthing'' him, because they have no reason to. Just because some one said you are bad, don't ignore the fact you are, start improve, if you don't you keep getting those harsh things coming your way. If you want it to stop, improve, don't ignore it and feel bad for yoruself or make a whole group and then say how bad life is because some one was mean to you for 10 seconds saying you didn't pull of your weight.

I haven't played a lot of MMO's but there are bad seeds in any MMO, both a-holes and those who refused to take advice. Can you please tell me how people can improve if they don't take advice? Or should I just ignore the problem and think it's okay? If thats how you want it to be, you will bet for sure many will be left out in the future, not because people aren't doing their job propely, but simply because many ignore it and that leaves out people get enough and do things on their own. And the LAST THING YOU WANT IN A MMO IS TO LEAVE PEOPLE OUT Being left out is a choice, if you keep being bad, that's a choice. Improving is a choice, if you don't want to, you bet you will be left out and that's the reality.

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Originally Posted by Eifahlwyn

I absolutely do not want a parser. You can look at the history of other MMOs to see exactly what happens when parsers are embraced by the community or developers. It does not magically make people get better at the game or want to improve. All it does is widen the gap between “elitists” and “casuals” while making the playerbase as a whole more toxic.

But hey that’s exactly what pro-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF.

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90% sure WoW always had Recount since the beginning essentially - and actually things only started getting "really bad" around the Gearscore era in WLK with Achievements.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

The button bloat in this game is a huge problem. It makes a lot of classes much harder than they should be

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This is a problem in this game, I think. I enjoy a slightly more simplistic rotation but complex bosses. Classes are built around strict mechanical precision here, it seems like. If you slip you can slip badly which IMO makes some classes more stressful than fun.

Anyway, REGARDING PARSERS:


I think people have to understand where the apprehension towards a party-wide meter is coming from. Since I usually performed high on the meters in the groups I ran with in other games I was rarely harassed but there was some harassment that occured. The big problem with the meters I think is that it turns killing a boss into a pissing contest between the DPS in a group. No longer is the objective to kill the boss, it's to do better than your own party members. A definite competition sets in for them in a way it doesn't for healers or tanks. If you are not a naturally competitive person this can feel stressful. If you are looked at as a number instead of a tank or a healer it feels dehumanizing (And we are numbers, I mean we're called "Damage Per Second" instead of "Damager" or "Damage Dealer" within the community).

Since there are a lot more DPS than healers or tanks we are also conditioned to believe we'll be replaced in the blink of an eye if we don't soar like an eagle in numbers. Which means...

A parser can, and WILL, if introduced lead to bad behavior especially early on. I remember when we first got popular meter addons in WoW, people just acted like idiots. Rogues and feral druids would refuse to switch targets because they were bent on getting off a 5cp finisher so adds caused all sorts of issues. Additionally, people were jumping in too soon, bursting at the beginning of a fight, not cutting off dots before threat wipes (like Hydross)...all because they wanted to be at the top of the meter. Congratulations, we wiped but you certainly did rock those meters because you used your long, massive cooldowns early instead of saving them for an execution phase.

Meters can screw with class populations too. When everyone knows what dps class performs highest (because everyone will have the tools to figure it out) everyone will flock there. Not a huge problem, really, but some might find it annoying.

Actual damage meters will absolutely cause some deep changes in our little community. It's completely silly to say they won't. That said, they can still be used as a valuable tool especially for hardcore statics and they will not be abused as much as people think. They won't make jerks out of people who weren't jerks already. They WILL give said jerks a megaphone, though, so you'd have to brace yourselves for that.

How do I feel about them personally? I am, perhaps surprisingly, pro parser. They are a very handy tool in the right hands and it's nice to be able to see your own DPS and be able to adjust it on the fly. To me knowing my damage output is far less stressful than NOT knowing. The parser would just have to be good and not get confused by things like dots or counting Egis as entirely different combatants than the SMN who controls them.

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Originally Posted by Eifahlwyn

I absolutely do not want a parser. You can look at the history of other MMOs to see exactly what happens when parsers are embraced by the community or developers. It does not magically make people get better at the game or want to improve. All it does is widen the gap between “elitists” and “casuals” while making the playerbase as a whole more toxic.

But hey that’s exactly what pro-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF.

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You didn't need a parser to become a pessimistic, broad-brushing individual, so I guess toxic people are just toxic, parsing or not.

Just implement it on full groups, like 'undersized' or 'minimum ilvl'. In duty finder just show players their own damage and (maybe) the damage of all at the end of the dungeon, maybe split up per boss.

Oh, and.. as if I and many other need a parser to know if one or both dps are doing good or bad... you know that after the first mobs. It's even easy to recognize which one is the bad dps in a dungeon environment. Who cares about parsing in dungeons, seriously?

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Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

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because everyone whos playing ffxiv signed a contract with u and the rest to do some specific numbers?

Example: My main is pld , but sometimes i like to play drg or sch,and ofc here and there i fuck up my rotation because im looking at what skill to click etc :P
so my dps drops down accordingly.

and maybe not everyone is as gifted as you are in specific situations. But the problem is that people cant understand why.

The Reality is that way to many people are trying to force something upon everyone , and that they dont WANT understand when someone dosnt share the passion :P

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

because everyone whos playing ffxiv signed a contract with u and the rest to do some specific numbers?

Example: My main is pld , but sometimes i like to play drg or sch,and ofc here and there i fuck up my rotation because im looking at what skill to click etc :P
so my dps drops down accordingly.

and maybe not everyone is as gifted as you are in specific situations. But the problem is that people cant understand why.

The Reality is that way to many people are trying to force something upon everyone , and that they dont WANT understand when someone dosnt share the passion :P

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I'm not gifted either but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try.
Leave it forced or not, people should try regardles. If they don't share the passion being better, why do they want to be in a group of people who do primals or savage and just expect people to play mr nice uncle, so they are just socialy accepted being bad. No it doesn't work like that sadly. You either perform on a decent level, I'm not expecting top tier around myself but knowledge and atleast 95% sure how the class works. I know in new fights you need to get used to rotation and when to hit and not. But if you don't have either, then you are wasting peoples time which is selfish I don't expect number to be amazing all the time, I expect them to be good enough when you wanna do primals or savage. You can clear content without being amazing, being decent is fine. What some people don't understand is they need to fix their attitude being the one calling out numbers like the ones telling people to fuck off, like I said multiply times. I'm not gonna blame on the low dps people on peoples attitutide, but however I will say it's their own fault to begin with why people call them out.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

because everyone whos playing ffxiv signed a contract with u and the rest to do some specific numbers?

Example: My main is pld , but sometimes i like to play drg or sch,and ofc here and there i fuck up my rotation because im looking at what skill to click etc :P
so my dps drops down accordingly.

and maybe not everyone is as gifted as you are in specific situations. But the problem is that people cant understand why.

The Reality is that way to many people are trying to force something upon everyone , and that they dont WANT understand when someone dosnt share the passion :P

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For the reference: Messing up 'here and there' as a DPS doesn't cause your DPS to fall by over 500. For the reference: Messing up 'here and there' at best might drop you by 100~.

That's why people find it so sickening. When someone's performing at 1/2-2/3rd their actual potential, it's not a case of 'Messing up'... It's a case of 'not caring.'

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

For the reference: Messing up 'here and there' as a DPS doesn't cause your DPS to fall by over 500. For the reference: Messing up 'here and there' at best might drop you by 100~.

That's why people find it so sickening. When someone's performing at 1/2-2/3rd their actual potential, it's not a case of 'Messing up'... It's a case of 'not caring.'

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Excactly my point. There is A HUGE DIFFERENCE!

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Originally Posted by Eifahlwyn

But hey that’s exactly what pro-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF.

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Posters need to stop broadly generalizing like this as it's not productive or conducive to actual discussion. This basically like me (or anyone) saying:

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But hey that’s exactly what pro anti-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF To be able to be lazy in duty finder and waste everyone's precious time by auto attacking everything while watching Netflix.

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It's not helpful, doesn't add anything legitimate to the discussion, and just shows how ignorant you are as a poster.

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Originally Posted by Eifahlwyn

But hey that’s exactly what pro-parsers want. To be able to call out a “bad” player for only doing X amount of dps and, ergo, wasting their precious time in the DF.

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You are wrong, I am vehemently pro being informed (pro parser) I have zero intention of calling people out with it. If it was in the game I'd have even less reason to mention it, since players would be able to see for themselves how they are doing. Stop correlating the desire for information with the desire to belittle others.

I'm curious if the anti-parser crowd would have a problem with a parser being implemented in a limited capacity such as having it available for:

1) Training Dummies (what the hell good is a training dummy unless you have real time feedback. Yes you can practice your rotation on it ad nauseam but that doesn't really benefit you if your rotation does poor DPS to begin with)
2) Extreme Primals (Story mode/Hard mode primals would not have a parser option as it is completely unnecessary)
3) Savage tier content (This is where most of the pro-parser crowd exists - you have fights that have constant DPS checks and no way of determining why a group is not meeting said DPS check unless someone is running a parser. As a PS4 player, I can only hope that it's not me who is holding everyone else back but I have no real information on if it is or not until someone on computer tells me as such.)

Beyond those situations, the use of a parser will absolutely be used to detrimental effects. Parties/party members do not need to know their DPS in dungeons/24 mans/Alex NM/Story mode battles/Any open world content other than the training dummies as none of these situations truly require a very tightly tuned DPS check. However, within the top-tier content, parsing data can be a holy grail of information for raid teams and even PUG groups trying to participate in this content.

Will it be used to exclude people from the higher endgame battles? Yes, undoubtedly, but if Player A isn't able to meet their portion of the DPS check, I'm sorry but they have no place in a party attempting a fight that has such tight DPS checks until they are able to improve themselves. Furthermore, it would be much easier for them to improve themselves and be able to participate if they had a metric which they could measure themselves while practicing their rotation.

However, by limiting the content a parser is available in to these types of fights, the casual crowd, who typically do not even attempt to undertake these kinds of fights, would remain free of having jackasses constantly berate them because they may not be doing the best DPS humanly possible in Antitower Roulette.

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Originally Posted by Dement

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Could be a posibility have the parsers only active on the higher level contents and in SSS and dummies. Should be more than enough and probably will avoid unnecesary conflics with casual players that doesn't care high level stuff (yes, casual players has rights too).

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Originally Posted by Dement

However, within the top-tier content, parsing data can be a holy grail of information for raid teams and even PUG groups trying to participate in this content.
. . .
However, by limiting the content a parser is available in to these types of fights, the casual crowd, who typically do not even attempt to undertake these kinds of fights, would remain free of having jackasses constantly berate them because they may not be doing the best DPS humanly possible in Antitower Roulette.

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I would be ok with this suggestion. Or just a personal parser everywhere. Surely tight-knit savage teams trust each other enough to not lie about their numbers? Either way, I don't really care what goes on in the end-game circles as long as it doesn't drip down to casual content. "Git gud or be called out (and you have only yourself to blame for being picked on)" as Seraphix so eloquently put it, is exactly the type of attitude I don't want to see imposed on anyone during my time in-game, and I'll happily avoid harder content to save myself from that cringe fest.

By the way I liked your post, because you are one of the few people to take into account the concerns of both sides without dismissing them as irrelevant or deflecting an issue by bringing up another. A lot of the time people talk past each other when discussing parsers. Pro-parser people are worried about not clearing (in hard content), and anti-parser people are worried about increasing hostility or a more competitive atmosphere (in casual content). Understanding the environments where those concerns rise from is important when trying to find a solution that suits everyone. Seems we have reached a good compromise. Now I'm curious to see if my other prediction comes true.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Or just a personal parser everywhere. Surely tight-knit savage teams trust each other enough to not lie about their numbers?

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While yes, tight-knit savage teams may not lie to each other or care, the problem with this arises from often times when a member of a static is missing you have to PUG from the general population or, alternatively, try the fights with a complete PF made party (especially happens in Extreme primals). You may get someone who knows what they're doing or you may get someone who is completely new and just wants to give it a try. One of the long time points of the pro-parser crowd is that if you build a PUG party that can't clear a DPS check, you don't have any official way of knowing who isn't pulling their weight. While I'm all for being inclusive, if someone is not capable enough at their job to meet an average DPS necessity of high-end content then they don't really have a place there until they can improve to a point of meeting said check.

Now the typical counter-argument for this is "well what's average or what is the standard" but I feel that argument is assuming that people doing high end raids have never seen other people play or never pay attention to what others are getting. If a parser was available for high end content and I join a PUG and see a MCH doing 2000 DPS, I'm not automatically going to assume that 2000 DPS is the standard for MCH in that fight. If my next party the MCH is doing 800 DPS, I will reasonably assume that one of them was incredibly skilled and doing very high DPS and the other is doing very low DPS with the average right around 1300. After 5 or 10 runs in which I have a MCH in my group, I will have a general idea of how much a MCH is able to do and be able to judge accordingly if someone isn't quite up to snuff from there on out. This would only be further aided by everyone having the parsing data and therefore being to ask your FC members or LSes what their average MCH has historically gotten if you feel the one in your group is not contributing to a DPS check.

Again I'm not advocating that person be disbarred from the fight forever; however, it's usually pretty clear that the party isn't going to pass a DPS check with a person who is consistently far below average. This would be a good time to remove said person which admittedly may be an ugly affair but the removed person would have empirical evidence that they need to practice their rotation and, whether it was stated nicely or meanly, they would at least walk out with knowledge of what their class should be doing DPS wise. Then they could turn to training dummies which would also be able to tell them their DPS and work on rotations until they are doing better and can try joining a group again. The glory of this is that once you have this information and know your rotation, you'll learn your proper rotation and shouldn't ever be kicked from a party again.... unless you can't get mechanics but that's far outside the parser debate.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Could be a posibility have the parsers only active on the higher level contents and in SSS and dummies. Should be more than enough and probably will avoid unnecesary conflics with casual players that doesn't care high level stuff (yes, casual players has rights too).

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That's fine or group parsers. I mean the real thing here is, parsers are only used proppely during extremes or savage (raiding), most people gives a shit about 24 man or dungeons tbh. I know those people exist but there aren't many tbh. And if casuals or whatever people call them, I know many of them don't raid so they wouldn't even be called out. It's usually fights like extremes or savage they are called out on.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

By the way I liked your post, because you are one of the few people to take into account the concerns of both sides without dismissing them as irrelevant or deflecting an issue by bringing up another. A lot of the time people talk past each other when discussing parsers. Pro-parser people are worried about not clearing (in hard content), and anti-parser people are worried about increasing hostility or a more competitive atmosphere (in casual content). Understanding the environments where those concerns rise from is important when trying to find a solution that suits everyone. Seems we have reached a good compromise. Now I'm curious to see if my other prediction comes true.

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You are soo right about this post, so I have to agree with it. However, don't get me wrong but many pro parser people care less about dungeons or void ark. This is mainly primals or raids that this usually happens. Because that's where you really have to play well. Problem as someone else mentioned before, there is a huge gap between content and many who maybe want to try the new primals for example and not raid and many things in games are faceroll content so kinda need to blame on SE for that part too :p.

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Originally Posted by Dement

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The only issue I have with that is that it leaves people like me and my FC out when it comes to improving and measuring that improvement. (not a savage raider and doesn't always clear EX primals as an FC). We'd still for the most part be left with using a 3rd party app to measure our personal advancement. If you augmented your suggestion with an always available personal parser I'd be more amenable to the suggestion.

Would like to have a personal parser in all content and party parser for raids where it is legitimatly needed.

my PC can't run a parser without major lag so it sucks having to rely on someone else to get my DPS.

I just want to say something about those who are against parsers: I do run one myself, I often see "baddies" in my runs, and you know what I do to those who have bad dps?

Nothing.

What, did you expect me to say "I call them out"? I couldn't care less if they are bad or not: I'm doing my job and they should do theirs. I could perhaps tell them the situation but I don't want to risk it. Plus I don't care...but if some people do, parsers are just a very good way to do that (or asking someone who has). I'd be glad to help if someone asks me to check them out but only if they ask me.

My reason for parsing it's just for testing my dps and that's -it- and thanks to -it- I managed to enjoy dpsing more than before, since I always thought that my dps was very low despite doing all rotations fine. The moment I saw my damage after a run I was really really happy to see that my efforts weren't pointless! I bet a lot of people have that feeling too.

I get it folks, I get it: people can abuse parsers but please stop this phobia of abuse, because this is what it is in essence: a phobia. People are just afraid of "intoxicating" the community without realizing that we already have people abusing other features that are actually official! ("cough" housing "cough" ilvl "cough" trading "cough" you name it)

Give parsers a chance before already saying that it's bad.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

a phobia of abuse.

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It's not really a phobia when it's has visible effects even in it's non official form. It's like telling someone they have a phobia of gunshot wounds because they don't want to get shot.

You know what this thread tells me? That the people who dont want parsers are a very vocal minority.

Uh... 273 people isn't a majority out of a possible 600,000 or more players.


Edit: Citation for my comment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...l_census_time/

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Originally Posted by Kerii

Uh... 273 people isn't a majority out of a possible 600,000 or more players.


Edit: Citation for my comment.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...l_census_time/

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The entire time that this has been up, the votes have stayed within a proportionate range to each other. Not so much a census on if we should have a parser, but how much of the populationis concerned by them. How many people are active on the forums each day? How many people voted? This shows that people are interested in whether a parser could be added and that developers could take the next step and ask players on a wider scale, whether this type of add-on support, would be *ba-dunce* supported.

It's silly to be a damage dealer and not actually know how much damage your doing is. When I switched from my healer to dps the first time I had no clue how to improve. I remember doing a trial or something and I thought my dps was okay but someone said my numbers and I was shocked how low they were. That made me improve and since then I ask people with a parser what damage I do. If I never knew my numbers I would be a burden to the team at higher level raids.

Egh I don't see this thread getting any more of a reaction from SE as the numerous others in the past but for the spirit of things I voted for a personal parser.

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Originally Posted by Orbiaus

It's silly to be a damage dealer and not actually know how much damage your doing is. When I switched from my healer to dps the first time I had no clue how to improve. I remember doing a trial or something and I thought my dps was okay but someone said my numbers and I was shocked how low they were. That made me improve and since then I ask people with a parser what damage I do. If I never knew my numbers I would be a burden to the team at higher level raids.

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We need more positive people like you. This is a perfect example of how you should react. Many however won't and many doesn't get that's a real big issue too. I was excactly the same in the past. I was so bad and some one told me so many times I had to step up.

People are afraid of accountability, cmon, healers and Tanks have had to deal with this since forever. Why are the DPS so afraid of being called out?

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Egh I don't see this thread getting any more of a reaction from SE as the numerous others in the past but for the spirit of things I voted for a personal parser.

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See, someone gets it!

YoshiP and SE I am the Casual BAD DPS from the General PLAYERBASE and I speak for myself and my noob friends.

All of us want DPS Meter and we think it is mandatory.

Because there is no in game DPS meter (aka parser),
therefore some of my friends need to use the unofficial, prohibited, use as your own risk, but don't tell others, officially disallowed, unofficially allowed parser.
Then some friends found so many VALUE-ADDED feature comes with the parser.


I want to say please give us in game DPS meter, and you should ban all 3rd party tools.

Why are only DPS players being called out? If SE implements a parser, tanks and healers will need to pump out as much dps as possible. Healers and tanks don't get a free pass either.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

Why are only DPS players being called out?

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Because this role is lacking in transparency compared to the other 2 roles.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

Because this role is lacking in transparency compared to the other 2 roles.

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With my DRK, how do you know I'm not just doing my aggro combo and not using any of my other abilities to dps?

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

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i very much doubt that an official dps parser would have the same functionality as a 3rd party tool being developed since eq2 :P

i doubt people are afraid accountability , they are more afraid from the people who cant use such a tool responsible (in a non jerk way :P ) ^^