Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

Personally speaking, I have cleared T13 here, and I still find WOW raids harder then this.

---

The Shadow Odyssey in Everquest II's raiding (and dungeon) content was probably the hardest content I have ever done in a game before. I don't think anything else really compares right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Its not telling you anything your chat log can't tell you or is not already displayed on the screen. And you aren't sniffing other players packets. You aren't hacking other people's pcs. You are only seeing data sent to you. And the only data that you can get from parsers that you can't get from reading your own screen that I'm aware of is individual dot damage since it is lumped together into a single # on screen (same deal with regeneration effects).

How much a monster hits you for? Really? It pops up in bold letters on screen and in chat. When my coil group wipes and we are at all confused, we very, very frequently review chat log to see what damage was dealt to whom and the timestamps with it to figure out what killed us.

Why the tank die? "Oh check at 8:22 guys, bahamut scored a crit auto attack between flare breaths and the adlo effect was listed after so the adlo was just late and an unlucky crit nail in the coffin" Mystery solved! All from you handy dandy chat log. True story. We did this ALL the time during progression.

The only advantage is if it does something beyond just recording log data (using incoming data to trigger a sound to call out moves automagically or other capabilities). The numbers themselves give you zero information not already available except for th aforementioned separation if dots and regeneration effects. Bare bones parsers are just glorified chat log recorders that break the ToS by poking at SE'S property (their files).

---

Lets pretend for a second that everything you said was 100% true.

If that is all true, how you say that is. Then why are peoples parses different?

Both players can run a program on the same fight and have different parses for each other.

Your not taking account factors, server lag, how close you are to people. What about Latency?

The program is not perfect, that is why its not good. Its good at recording your own DPS, however its not good at reading everyone else's DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

But you have not done any FF14 raiding or from the sounds of it WOW raiding as well, where is your personal experience coming from again?

---

Why bother? Iron-works gear is good. In World of Warcraft you can get gear doing raids that have no mechanics at all that are easier then World of Darkness.

I care about gear. Not raiding. If raiding gear becomes interesting and significantly better then I will care, until then who cares?

TSO was fun, because the raiding was harder then anything else and had gear that was significantly better then what you could get doing easier stuff. That is what made it fun.

You realize I said "What i've done" right? I really don't care what you've done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

The Shadow Odyssey in Everquest II's raiding (and dungeon) content was probably the hardest content I have ever done in a game before. I don't think anything else really compares right now.

---

But you have not done any FF14 raiding or from the sounds of it WOW raiding as well, where is your personal experience coming from again?

Why would anyone not want to use a parser to try to better themselves? But maybe that is the underlying issue here. Maybe some people just don't want to get better. I will never understand that mentality but you see it every day in all aspects of life I suppose. The world needs ditch diggers after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

Why would anyone not want to use a parser to try to better themselves? But maybe that is the underlying issue here. Maybe some people just don't want to get better. I will never understand that mentality but you see it every day in all aspects of life I suppose. The world needs ditch diggers after all.

---

Because getting better makes it a 'job' and apparently it's impossible to have 'fun' and also actually try at the same time. You instantly grow a neckbeard and are teleport ed to your mom's basement surrounded by mountain dew and hot pockets if you even suggest bettering yourself in a silly game is compatible with fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Because getting better makes it a 'job' and apparently it's impossible to have 'fun' and also actually try at the same time. You instantly grow a neckbeard and are teleport ed to your mom's basement surrounded by mountain dew and hot pockets if you even suggest bettering yourself in a silly game is compatible with fun.

---

LOL! This is great! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

If that is all true, how you say that is. Then why are peoples parses different?

Both players can run a program on the same fight and have different parses for each other.

Your not taking account factors, server lag, how close you are to people. What about Latency?

The program is not perfect, that is why its not good. Its good at recording your own DPS, however its not good at reading everyone else's DPS.

---

You can change settings on parsers to do things like stop recording if you don't hit the boss for x amount of seconds. So, say you have it set for 2 seconds. During any kind of downtime when the boss is untargetable or you have other mechanics going on that prevent you from hitting anything for that amount of time, the parser stops. Basically, it ends up giving you a falsely high reading for the overall encounter since you're completely discounting any downtime. Someone else may have it set to 30 seconds, which takes any downtime/mechanics into account in the parse. Theirs will be lower than yours. And yes, some parsers can't read DoT damage and such, which also changes it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Because getting better makes it a 'job' and apparently it's impossible to have 'fun' and also actually try at the same time. You instantly grow a neckbeard and are teleport ed to your mom's basement surrounded by mountain dew and hot pockets if you even suggest bettering yourself in a silly game is compatible with fun.

---

Yeah... I really don't get this mentality. I enjoy being good at what I do.

Maybe some people enjoy mediocrity? *shrugs*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Because getting better makes it a 'job' and apparently it's impossible to have 'fun' and also actually try at the same time. You instantly grow a neckbeard and are teleport ed to your mom's basement surrounded by mountain dew and hot pockets if you even suggest bettering yourself in a silly game is compatible with fun.

---

For me, personally, I have more fun when I know I'm doing well.

Parsers help me do better than I'd do without them.

Parsers make the game more fun for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cadmar

The world needs ditch diggers after all.

---

If anyone was wondering why the term elitist tends to get thrown at raiders so much, it's because of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

But you have not done any FF14 raiding or from the sounds of it WOW raiding as well, where is your personal experience coming from again?

---

long-time World of Warcraft player and raider here, from 1.11 up to the launch of Siege of Orgrimmar. Raiding since Ulduar, Leading groups since Icecrown Citadel.

I've done raids in WoW for a very long time, tho not much on heroic (now mythic). lead 2 groups through WOTLK and Pandaria (Cataclysm was a bit of a downtime for me), and came here because Draenor killed my expectations of a less horde-centric WoW (I never liked the overall theme of the horde, visual and otherwise). in FF I'm leading a static on T9, so you could say I did a somewhat big chunk of content in both games, albeit not EVERYTHING.

And I can tell you, raids here are not EASIER, they are DIFFERENT. the shorter GCD (for those not in the know, WoW's GCD is only 1 second short) and increased randomness of WoW's boss fights may give the perception of "harder" content, but in the end all the other side of the fence demands more than here is more button mashing. You can argue that dealing with mechanics with more button mashing is harder than with less button mashing, but I say raids here demand MUCH more split-second attention and moving than WoW raids. Not to mention WoW raids in general allow for a MUCH MUCH MUCH higher margin for error than FF14's raids, specially if we're talking about 25-men raiding.

Many coil turns only grant a clear with FLAWLESS EXECUTION from every member (Twint*cough* *cough*nia), there are very few WoW boss fights like that. I've seen many, MANY clears back in the WoW days where the boss would fall with 3 or 4 people alive. On FF14? not even one. Also, the quantity of "fire" to move out on FF14 is VERY SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER than on WoW. Also, 99% of the playerbase who does raids there use Deadly Boss Mods, which is plain right CHEATING compared to how we raid here. And don't even get me started on World of Logs. (that one I actually miss)

Now, if you're comparing to Heroic Raiding (now called Mythic), the right comparison would be to (Savage) Coil. Heroic (now Mythic) raiding in WoW is mostly like their regular (now Heroic) counterparts, with a higher gear check (since they're meant to be done by people fully decked in regular mode gear), with the addition of a few (not many) mechanics, in MOST CASES. Sure, there's cases like the Lich King and Ragnaros, where the challenge curve from regular to heroic is very steep, and maybe those 2 are harder than T9 savage on full i110 w/ 115 weapon gear, but those cases are exceptions. Also, OK, I gotta hand it to Blizzard, their skill in encounter design is unmatched, even by SE. But they had 10 years to hone their skills (the encounter design team at Blizz is the same since WoW's launch), while FF14 has barely 2 years of age. In time, I believe we'll be some very interesting fights.

Anyhow, my point is: WoW and FF14 are 2 different games, with 2 different skillsets needed to be a good raider. There's no "easier" and "harder" game, there.

The kind elitists I hate are the ones who give up on a group after literally one wipe and vote abandon. These aren't elitists, they are assholes who think they are above it all, and that just because they aren't new to the duty or the duties mechanics, that everyone around them should also not be new, and should be able to perfect the duty on-the-go, right away, or get out! That kind of mentality that some players seem to have really irks me.

These type of people are not better. They are not in anyway "above" others. They are rude losers, plain and simple.

I am one of those players who refuses to watch video guides or read them online. I like learning mechanics in-game, I can usually adapt to the situation fast. I need that hand one experience vs. reading or watching a guide that will do absolutely nothing for me. I will learn the mechanics by playing, and if I can force some social activity out of the mostly anti-social community that largely makes up this game, then I say good. Maybe I've helped a poor soul not to be such an emo-wannabe and to talk to other players, cuz you know, it's fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Izsha

Because getting better makes it a 'job' and apparently it's impossible to have 'fun' and also actually try at the same time.

---

This right here. A million times, this.

It's the reason I had to leave my last static. We were working on T10 and the OT (warrior) kept dying from wild charge because he didn't know what inner beast did and wouldn't use it (this was before echo). When I explained what it did he got hostile and yelled at me for harping on him too much, called me an elitist, and then gave me the 'it's just a game you're trying too hard' speech. I left the static of my own accord.

I'm getting a bit of this vibe from this post.

http://media.npr.org/assets/news/201...457.jpg?s=1400

CAPTION: This is the difference between you and me, not personal. Deal with it.

You got the power, what are you doing with it?

That ant needs to git gud.

(jk people! lol)

In my time gaming I have been called casual and elitist by people in my own guild, by people on forums at the very same time. People who took the game more serious than I called me casual and considered it an insult. People who took the game less serious than I called me elitist with contempt. Some background, I have been the leader of very large guilds, and very small guilds. I was the primary raid leader for WoW guilds for one the top guilds on the one of the oldest servers, I did it for a long time. I have selflessly given my time to help people improve because it would help our guild. I did it because I got satisfaction from it. Over time dealing with all the stress that goes along with it made me sick of MMO players.

Many of you are lazy and selfish. Yep, I said it. I would spend hours of my time, making videos, creating diagrams, thinking of ways to word things so people would not get offended, looking over our parses. Looking at gear and builds, teaching people, giving them in game currency to upgrade, taking them though content I had done over and over to gear them. Some people could not be bothered to even look the guides I posted for them, got offended if I pointed out their DPS was too low on a fight that was a DPS race. I was bad guy for even using parsers. I taught mommies who had never played an MMO to be top notch raiders.

To other people I was too casual because I was willing to teach, I did not kick people immediately who failed. Basically, if you were willing to try, give effort and want to be better, I would defend your right to be there and do anything I could to help you. Some people are unwilling to help others at all, and need someone to blame for every wipe. I really don't know which group of people are worse, I know that I am sick of both of them and reside in small FC of close friends and family and it will stay that way.

I do DFs all the time. I am amazed at how fast some people bail, I will stay till the end as long as we show improvement. I encourage rather than complain. Some people are nasty, really...get over yourself and show some class. Some of you show up to things you have no business showing up to, crap gear, no knowledge of the encounter, you don't even understand or know the abilities of your job. You cannot avoid ANY of the fight mechanics, and I have to raise you over and over. I am certain this isn't the first time it has happened to you. If you know you struggle with new content, if your groups struggle and wipe please, grind for better gear Soldiery/Poetic and watch some videos. People who say they don't help are lying, yeah, I called you a liar. Sure, you don't completely get it until you do it and practice, but knowing what is going to happen before you see it helps. Watching a group succeed will help you succeed and make you less of a burden on others.

This is basically about giving a poop about people other than yourself. You have to compromise. Teach and encourage if you have the knowledge, be patient. Spend some time learning, try to improve so you don't ruin the experience of others. Do not expect to be carried. Bill and Ted had it right,"Be excellent to one another."

I'm glad to wake up seeing so many likes for the OP's 1st post. The whole stereotype and insult that some of people in this thread throw at "elitist" is just disgusting. I don't go out of my way to berate on newbies, greenhorn, novice, players who can't devote much time into the game. I could even group them all together and call them CASUALs and give them the same negative stigma but that's just doing promoting the same hostile attitude from the opposite end.

Who cares if people want to be elitist and enjoy the game with their own circle as long as they aren't hurting the community. When will people realize that most elitist aren't newbie-harassing douchebag? People in this thread who want to start a crusade against "elitist" are just hypocrites who don't realize that they are splintering the community with their hate-filled attitude just like the very same newbie-harassing douchebag that they are so against.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

You realize I said "What i've done" right? I really don't care what you've done.

---

Feel free to what you want to feel, however you entire post just proved everything I said, you have done nothing and just like in another thread, your opinion on the matter is worthless, you even used your own experience from another game in which people asked you to have experience here to gain the same personal view yet you have not.

And you are right, there is a raid that has no mechanics, its called LFR which is WOWs CT/ST/WOD, well done on your valuable input, this is why people can not take you seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

long-time World of Warcraft player and raider here, from 1.11 up to the launch of Siege of Orgrimmar. Raiding since Ulduar, Leading groups since Icecrown Citadel.

---

Coming from another raid leader here, Ive raid leaded herioc modes in WOW in 25 content, there is some leeway to recover so does fights in FF14, the point where there can not be one mistake here is false. You can recover here just as well really. What you might be seeing here is just inherent lack of player skill.

DBM is cheating, good thing even I didn't use it, but blizzard designs encounters under the assumption people are using it now.

I still find the pace in FF14 lot slower then WOW and gives way too much time to react, but this is coming from someone who has had a few WOL rankings during current content on my warlock, the GCD here is still annoying.

Do not get me wrong, there were some pathetically easy bosses in normal mode i.e dragonsoul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakuro89

This right here. A million times, this.

It's the reason I had to leave my last static. We were working on T10 and the OT (warrior) kept dying from wild charge because he didn't know what inner beast did and wouldn't use it (this was before echo). When I explained what it did he got hostile and yelled at me for harping on him too much, called me an elitist, and then gave me the 'it's just a game you're trying too hard' speech. I left the static of my own accord.

---

He got to T10...and didn't know what Inner Beast does?

...I honestly have no words.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raelgun

Feel free to what you want to feel, however you entire post just proved everything I said, you have done nothing and just like in another thread, your opinion on the matter is worthless, you even used your own experience from another game in which people asked you to have experience here to gain the same personal view yet you have not.

And you are right, there is a raid that has no mechanics, its called LFR which is WOWs CT/ST/WOD, well done on your valuable input, this is why people can not take you seriously.

---

Except the raid still drops the same gear as the normal raid. So it doesn't matter, the mechanics and all of that are worthless because of that. Gear and Progression are all that matters.

As soon as there is better gear, or easier to acquire gear then the old "hard" zones are obsolete. They don't matter.

I don't even know why your talking about old content and raiding. Since I have barely mentioned it at all. Thank you for your valuable input of absolutely nothing and good day. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

However not watching a guide is not the sign of a bad/weak player. To some players the challenge of learning a new fight is more fun then beating it.

---

This is a great sentiment, but if you're not watching a guide you should be doing one of two things: only running things with friends/guildmates, or only joining/creating party finder groups where this is a specifically stated objective. (Not saying you specifically are not, but I think these are the only people some players have problems with, I don't think anyone cares if a bunch of people who know each other get together and go into a fight with no idea what they are doing.)

I wholeheartedly agree with running content the first time with no guide, but I also run a Free Company, (and I am sure there are plenty out there) that takes that approach to content, and lets new players watch cutscenes, and go into a fight with no experience etc.

If you join a normal PF group or queue in DF without having at least a basic grasp of a more complicated fight, that is a really selfish approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magusrex

If you know you struggle with new content, if your groups struggle and wipe please, grind for better gear Soldiery/Poetic and watch some videos. People who say they don't help are lying, yeah, I called you a liar.

---

Considering the wording of online guides, they really don't help most of the time. People write guides and make video guides in what I call, "raider terms," meaning they are not understandable to someone new to that particular MMORPG. I've seen this quite consistently in every MMO I've played and find it annoying, not to mention really ignorant to assume that your reader or viewer knows all the terms and abbreviations used in a particular guide. If you have to ask several times what the hell someone is talking about in their guide, than it's a bad guide. Guides should be understandable to all, otherwise I don't see how they can even be considered "guides."

Your assumption that everyone that doesn't understand online guides or videos are liars, is what people are talking about when they act disgusted at elitism. It's that, "I can do it this way, so everyone should be able to do it my way obviously, and if not they are liars," attitude that bugs a lot of people, including me.

I used to play RIFT and end-game was such a pain because all the online guides I found for class builds were chalk-full of words I had no understanding of. Luckily a kind player in my guild showed me in-game how skill-rotations worked, what not to do, and what to do, and guess what? I understood my class and was finally able to start end-game dungeons without a hitch. Imagine that! Players being social and helpful instead of telling one another to "Google it."

Unfortunately, I've reached such a level of distrust with this community that I no longer participate in it. I don't join PFs and I only use DF for dungeons. I have a close network of friends that I play with and I generally don't go beyond it. It's a shame because I was so outgoing when I first started playing. Then, I'm not sure what happened, but I felt as though the community gradually became more hostile. I've been chastised for being willing to teach, for having patience, for getting slightly annoyed at players joining farms that clearly can't farm, and even for asking people to have common decency while using shout chat. It's like you can't win. The whole Casual-elitists thing is so overblown to me. It's just about expectations. If you join a farm, you can't call someone elitist for expecting you to know the fight. If you join a learning party, you can't get upset and call everyone dirty casuals just because you have it on farm and they don't. You can't use PF or DF and expect compliance and smooth runs, either.

I'm hoping Heavensward brings that sense of community back to the game for me. It's the only reason why I haven't unsubbed for good. This game is great. But, the players are soiling the experience, which isn't how it is supposed to be. We're supposed to enrich the experience for each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magusrex

snip

---

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/qKPQS7J.gif

From my point of view, if you want to " Pick the winning team" leave it out of the DF. If you go into the DF, you should highly expect people to be either good or bad. Make a party of your "winning team" and go about your business. If you go into the DF expecting this epic party and then complain about it, then Yes I will call you a elitist ( In a bad way).

Yes I love to go into every content blind, I don't like spoiling the fight mechanics and the fight itself, makes for a better experience. after a good dozen tries and I haven't succeed by then, I will perhaps check a video. However, I shouldn't be forced to look up a guide just because some elitist tells me too.

If I see the party making progress of some sort I will reject the vote abandon. If the party isn't making any progress at all, I will accept ( most cases). If I know the party I am in are new, I will stick with it because I know I was new at one point and I won't up and run away because things are looking bad, I give them time to learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ramsey

If you join a normal PF group or queue in DF without having at least a basic grasp of a more complicated fight, that is a really selfish approach.

---

No, just no. I cannot tell you how annoyed I get when someone tries to push this distortion of how duty finder and party finder are designed to be used.

Duty Roulette is there for new players to help fill parties in order to complete content, it's explicitly designed to reward players for helping others in this fashion.
Duty Finder is an algorithm driven cross server match maker and as a result you can get literally anything in a DF party. Assuming anything about the ability of players in DF and reacting negatively if they lack experience you demand, is extremely selfish and rude. Making specific demands of players in a DF party is like demanding that the tides turn back on your word.
Party Finder is a tool to allow you to assemble a group for a specific purpose, whether it be farming, learning or otherwise. Point is, you can specifythat people should know the fight, and kick them freely if they do not.
Pre made parties are for people who want a part to their specification for a specific purpose, so of course you can make specific demands.

Stop pretending that DF is a tool for end game farming or to find experienced players to fill a hole in your static, that *is* what Party Finder is for however.

"Duty Finder" and "expectations" should not be used in the same sentence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elmeron

snip

---

No offense, but if you are unable to comprehend due to game specific jargon, or understand mechanics via words, maybe your understanding of the game is just not where it needs to be in order to tackle the content..

You can't teach a tank how to tank a raid that doesn't understand how enmity works. Whether they know it by enmity/aggro/threat does not matter. But ultimately, they NEED to know how the system works. If they can't comprehend that, it's beyond help. They need to go back and start from square one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intaki

"Duty Finder" and "expectations" should not be used in the same sentence.

---

Why not? Duty Finder is essentially random people. You don't know who you are going to get and what their playstyle is like. Therefore, you should have the "expectation" that you could potentially get a "new player" to this particular content. Heck even a person that just does what he wants. You never know what you are going to get. So you Que up on the DF for a HM dungeon, be prepared for anything, keep the elitist attitude away from it.

This is just how I feel about it.

I wrote out a long post but it was too long apparently. 1000 character limit? The heck?

I suppose the TL;DR version is that I feel the OP doesn't know what it means to be an elitist. Elitist players are selfish players who look down upon most everyone else who isn't as good as them, refuse to be helpful, and often get unfairly upset at newer players who are learning content and who may not have all the time / resources to dedicate to the game.

The OP also mentions another type of selfish player, the ones who expect to be carried through content, and who don't care to try and learn, be better, or otherwise be a team player. These players are also selfish.

What it comes down to is that no one likes playing with selfish players, no matter how good they are, and both reflect poorly on the community.

For the best experience, players should strive to learn, be a good person, be helpful, and be a team player. People will like grouping with you no matter what your actual skill is if you're simply a decent human who is clearly trying. That's all it really takes. No one should aspire to be an elitist. No one should aspire to be selfish.

I'm not sure about all the stuff said before, but i must say. I am really dissapointed that you really can't do ANY current endgame w/o a static group. Mainly because anything harder than syrcus tower the majority of people can't do w/o wiping repeatedly, and that includes world of darkness :(

Oh I get it now!

The sum of EVERYTHING in this whole cesspool of you-know-what called a thread!

Everyone worse than you is a casual nooblord and everyone better than you is a no-life basement dwelling elitist!

Kinda like driving! Everyone slower than you is a jerk and everyone faster than you is a speed junkie maniac!


Can we end this thread already? It was amusing at the first 1-20 pages now it's just filled with wannabe trolls and such.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I'm not sure about all the stuff said before, but i must say. I am REALLY dissapointed that you really can't do ANY current endgame w/o a static group. Mainly because anything harder than syrcus tower the majority of people can't do w/o wiping repeatedly, and that includes world of darkness :(

---

That's because if SE designs encounters to be beat by PUGs in DF without voice chat, the hardcore players lose out because for a coordinated group with voice chat the content will become faceroll easy as soon as they beat it. On the other hand if they design end game solely around statics with voice, it would all be savage coil, and everyone outside that group would be completely excluded. SE are trying to cater to both with the 24 man raid that is more PUG friendly and by makingcoilhard, as well as offering Savage mode and nerfing the regular version after 6 months.

It's a difficult balance to achieve, if you specifically serve one market you exclude the other, but in a sense if you try to balance it, both groups will find things to complaign about, and as long as both groups are complaining, you might be striking the balance.

I think you're thoughts are on the sorta good side, but you really come off as a jerk while I read that. I have a friend of mine that plays, and he has cerebral palsy. He manages to play with a controller, but sometimes he's a little slow to dodge AoE's. I was doing World of Darkness with him last night, and of course, he gets frozen by that big floating eye fight in the urgonnadiezone... and dies. At that point, I won't drop any names, but a WHM starts emote slapping him. He's talking to me on teamspeak, obviously confused as to why he's getting slapped, and I just tell him the whm is a jerk. But this whm SPAMS slap emotes. It's taking up the entire chat log.

He gets a raise from a whm not even in our party, and we continue. And he gets hit, but manages to stay alive the rest of the night. But everytime he gets hit, this whm slaps him, and starts complaining about carrying scrubs in WoD.

This is the kind of elitist I hate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duskbringer

snip

---

Well, to be fair, the random WHM didn't know about your friend's conditions.
But that kind of expectation or shaming of noobs in a DF group, especially on contents such as WoD, is unwarranted.
That's not elitism, elitism requires you to know what you're getting yourself into, when you're sorry out of luck, and when to call it quits. IMO, elitism is about knowledge, being able to assess the situation correctly and decisively. In doing so, some people may call an elitist an impatient coward, and that can be due to a variance of opinion, or experience to draw the proper conclusion from.

Again, just randomly /slapping people for dying in a raid is not elitist..

I'm probably not at the top of the pack for skill level or anything. But it's certainly hard to blame people for wanting to play with others on their level. People value their time differently.

Just trying to do a pony farm last weekend I stuck with, what I assumed, was a Ramuh Ex Farm party, saw the 100stone warning and realized 'uh oh'. Stuck with them for about 70 minutes and got the win, but really, I was upset what was supposed to be something on farm was almost like a learning party. I still make mistakes in the old content. I'll miss someone's chaos just barely every now and then, but man, I didn't think it was elitist to assume a 'farm' was going to be a 'farm'.

I don't watch guides so I can learn how to play myself and become better though my failures. I find people that study a video to learn are fake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazille

I don't watch guides so I can learn how to play myself and become better though my failures. I find people that study a video to learn are fake.

---

Depends. I generally always experience each phase of every fight blind, then I watch videos to supplement my knowledge. Watching videos alone will never make sense, but once you have an idea of the mechanics and how they work, videos can supplement that knowledge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazille

I don't watch guides so I can learn how to play myself and become better though my failures. I find people that study a video to learn are fake.

---

That's fine and dandy, just don't make 7 other people suffer for your failures because you're unwilling to compromise.
Just get a learning party together and it should go smoothly, don't force your will on other people though, you should be aware that you're the minority of the player base. That's not a bad thing, just get 7 other people who think like you and learn by doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gamesmart

So let me get this straight.

My ability to perform fight mechanics near flawlessly, especially when handicapped by a painfully low frame rate (I mean <15 fps low), is fake because I watched videos to get an idea of what the fight looked like?




...What?

---

Yeah, didn't you know bodybuilders who exercise regularly are also fake?
Don't even get me started on GPS Navigation..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gazille

I don't watch guides so I can learn how to play myself and become better though my failures. I find people that study a video to learn are fake.

---

So let me get this straight.

My ability to perform fight mechanics near flawlessly, especially when handicapped by a painfully low frame rate (I mean <15 fps low), is fake because I watched videos to get an idea of what the fight looked like?




...What?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by juniglee

Depends. I generally always experience each phase of every fight blind, then I watch videos to supplement my knowledge. Watching videos alone will never make sense, but once you have an idea of the mechanics and how they work, videos can supplement that knowledge.

---

This. 100% this! In WoW I would always do the first time blind because even if I watched the video I would never fully understand it. After experiencing the fight once, watching the video would help me improve a hundred times over!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

Can we end this thread already?

---

lol, thanks for bumping this to the top! Want this thread to die? Then stop posting in it! :D