End game... Bored. The facts.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

End game is what makes or breaks an MMO for me, if an MMO doesn't get it right lots of players usually leave. This game has a ton of casual players though so it may not hurt that much

Probably a mistake that I played this game from what I'm seeing, way too many casual players for my taste

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EQ is still running, if you are interested, Fippy Darkpaw expansion server is only up to level 75, out of 100 and 1400 AA I think. I think people forget that it is extremely rare for a fully fleshed MMO to hit the net without having thousands and thousands of casuals to foot the bill for raiding content end gamers.

I would love nothing more than this game focusing on end game large number raids. You get people extremely excited when the casual players watch 60 players port up in groups to the planes. I don't know what this end game holds in store, but there is nothing like a full raid dragon kill.

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Originally Posted by Goddhand

I can't believe no one is discussing how bad AK is now

I understand they don't want fresh 50's doing speed runs through AK and gearing out relic in a day...but this is ridiculous. I'm watching kids in full df with relic +1 wipe to the wall constantly, and the bees now take an hour to go down. Why? All this is doing is making a crappy number check even crappier. It's not upping the difficulty, its an arbitrary shift into Binding Coil so end gamers will gear around AK instead of through it. This is awful.

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Huh? AK's difficulty wasn't increased. The wall and bees are no different than they were before. Only thing that changed in AK was the number of ToP.

WP was changed so that you have to kill the Tonberries and collect their oil in order to open the doors to prevent speed runs.

While maybe not put in the best way, I agree with OP, spamming this crap is boring, but....that's what most mmos break down to, it'd just be nice if anything in this game was actually hard, instead of "hard because of few party members suck." I can deal with it, but honestly I wish there was more other eventually boring stuff to do to even it out. Like an endgame zone with stuff like "ffxi's campaign" running, something that actual affects the world in a minute way, fight them back and less will come next time, don't fight em back for a while, hoardes. Different types of content besides "queue up for instance, either 4 man or 8" will help break a little bit of the monotony imo.

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I see you don't play this game, I am literally unable to gear up more than 1 job in gear past darklight/crafted and unable to do coil more than once per week, and 1 turn per job. Where exactly do I spend the rest of my game time after the 1 hour of coil turn 1- > 4 then the 1-2 hours of garuda farming to finish my myth tomes?

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Your guess is as good as mine. To me, who plays 60-80 hours a week. Getting to Mythology cap and (eventually) going Coil once on all turns, is plenty in a week.

I also like to socialize with the FC, enjoy my hangover while crafting some, go fish in plenty of locations just for the heck of it, do tome-farming (philosophy mainly) runs with FC people, run story-content to help FC people. And also devise ways and plans and schemes in order to make efficient, yet not soul-crushing, legit money. Because I'll have to buy a FC house. No time to get bored, imagine that.

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Originally Posted by Stryker

This is basically one of those arguments saying that oh, I came in undergeared and got carried. So because I did it, you should too. Bzzt wrong. being gimped with gear is a problem. Means that your cures aren't doing enough and it means that your tanks have to have higher EHP to compensate. While it is a good way to spread the monotony around, it's not 100% feasible for everyone. I can't go into stuff being undergeared as a tank without feeling guilty. Means that due to my laziness and whatever bullshit reason I throw out, people should have to carry more than their share of the weight? Full DL is overkill for AK, but a couple is a joke. A ring and a bracelet?

Personally I feel guilty if I don't pull my own weight, but apparently not everyone does.

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Yes, because clearly if nobody died I wasn't pulling my own weight, right? Yes, tanks and DD have it worse, but certainly not enough worse to require 55 CM runs prior to AK in the first place. There's a huge difference between 'pulling your own weight' and 'being over-geared enough so that nobody has to work at all'. Just because you're not geared enough to speed-run in 25 minutes instead of 26 minutes like that other PLD or WAR or whatever doesn't mean you aren't pulling your own weight; don't be an idiot.

I can't believe how frequently people equate not being the 'best' with being a failure. You don't have to be elite to try AK; you have to be sufficient. If a full party geared at that level can complete the dungeon effectively, then you're geared enough. Anything over that just enables speed-run gravy, but it's not a person's responsibility to gear themselves up sufficiently high so that everyone else can save a few minutes before jumping into queue again.

And, yes, that equates to having Ifrit's weapon (which I had) and 2-3 pieces of Darklight. For most anyone.

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but certainly not enough worse to require 55 CM runs prior to AK in the first place.

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51 runs of WP (or CM, or PR, or AK) will get all DL. I don't know why people keep repeating 55 runs. It's 5010 tomes. 900 more for relic, but you can get it later.

Full DL with i55 weapon is not super-overgeared. Relic+1 and full DL with some AF2/Allagan or melded i70 crafted is overgeared.
Full DL will increase your survivability over full AF with holes in accessories (there isn't i55 rings for casters either in GC Flames or goldsmith), but its the weapons that makes it speedier.

I'll be in full DL before running AK because I like to be the one that can carry, rather than the carried one. And I have issues with Wall and its movement, giving me a margin of error is going to make others, who end up not wiping as much, not be angry. Not because its a necessity or can't be done otherwise.

I wiped 10 times on wall, but I could have tried until time up, then queue again, right there in that AF gear with a lv 37 GC bracelet and lv 34 belt, and eventually done it anyways. But when its me causing the wipes, I rather reduce the chances first.

Endgame is still fun for now but I do agree that it is very annoying running these dungeons so many times. What are we proving by knowing every brick to stand on for every room of these dungeons...SE...we have got the fights down...come on, this sucks.
All these runs just to get the DL Gear seems likes it was just done wrong. They need to admit they are holding us up on purpose because there is not enough content for the game ready.
I am gearing for TITAN run now so I am actually still excited about the game and just got my Garuda Bow Drop on my first kill. I feel bad for those that are on Coil Turn 5 and will not have anything to do soon but alt level another class/job or crafts/gatherings.
I cannot wait to get my RELIC and then getting it +1...more farming....DARN IT!!!!!!!

Yeah I'd have to agree. You're pretty much forced to run CM and AK over and over to get decent gear. The primals are fairly easy, yet it's frustratingly hard to find a competent group. After getting bored I decided to level a new class, but now that I've already used most of the quests, leveling that up is also boring.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

wall of text

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Thank you for making it bold and purple, that made it so much easier to read.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

51 runs of WP (or CM, or PR, or AK) will get all DL. I don't know why people keep repeating 55 runs. It's 5010 tomes. 900 more for relic, but you can get it later.

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Only 51??? Well shit wtf is everyone bitching about then....

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Your guess is as good as mine. To me, who plays 60-80 hours a week. Getting to Mythology cap and (eventually) going Coil once on all turns, is plenty in a week.

I also like to socialize with the FC, enjoy my hangover while crafting some, go fish in plenty of locations just for the heck of it, do tome-farming (philosophy mainly) runs with FC people, run story-content to help FC people. And also devise ways and plans and schemes in order to make efficient, yet not soul-crushing, legit money. Because I'll have to buy a FC house. No time to get bored, imagine that.

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My coil LS only logs on once a week to finish coil in the 1 hour it takes to finish, my FC is slowly dying as more and more players quit from boredom/lack of content, and my 40+ person friendlist is getting smaller and smaller as days go by because of more and more people quitting due to boredom/lack of content.


I don't want to pay $13/month for a glorified chat room where I get to play for 2 hours a week, I also have enough gil to afford anything I want for the next few years. I've done all that crap 40460 times since release and it's boring now, plus more and more of my friends keep quitting and logging in less and less every day, I also can't even gear or play my monk at level 50 outside of titan because of stupid lock out timer and myth tome caps. " Getting to Mythology cap and (eventually) going Coil once on all turns, is plenty in a week." you say? Turn 1-4 takes my group 1 hour to clear now, then spamming garuda or WP for the remaining myth tomes is another 1-2 hours. 2-3 hours of content is "plenty per week"? Oh, I see.

I don't understand what you're trying to say with your post "I still have fun doing the same things over and over so you should too"? That's cool I guess, I already did that stuff so many times it's not fun anymore, and I'd like to progress my monk and play it in coil for fun but I can't, I'd like to run coil more often but I can't, so I have to sit here waiting 2+ more months for new content with nothing to do but afk in town and use the game as a glorified chat room until 2.1, which I will not pay $13/month for.

Sorry you're ok with doing the same things over and over for extended periods of time, but I'm not. I also lost ALL motivation to play the game once I dinged monk 50, realized I need 900 tomes for relic, and however many more for gryphonskin/darklight gear as well as the fact I'll NEVER be able to play it in coil, but if I don't gear it for coil(accuracy cap) I shouldn't bother gearing it at all, but since I won't even be able to play it in coil EVER there's no reason to gear it that much, realizing that I'm basically grinding boring as HELL easymode dungeons(cm/prae/wp/ak) for gear so I can grind them more easily, and the only fun content I'd be able to enjoy on Monk is titan which I can't spend 2+ months of playtime doing a single encounter I've had on farm since 3 weeks after release.

So really, what is the point of your post? Does it have one? Are you arguing for the same of arguing? If you are - I suggest you never reply to me again, because honestly, I don't care how much fun you're having doing stuff I've done 60640 times already, I doubt anyone does, I also doubt anyone cares how little fun I'm having, but I do know for a fact that more and more people are quitting everyday, and it's extremely noticable. Between these forums dying down greatly, my friendlist dwindling with players online, my FC losing more and more players everyday, and constant threads about "i'm bored there's nothing to do at end game" getting increasingly more popular, I'd say the general census is this game is losing players more than it's gaining, and it'll only get worse as time goes on and they take so long to release a patch adding content that's not even progression for players on coil. Meaning that players will beat twintania then probably quit until 2.3 because they'll do coil for gear to kill twintania then have nothing left to progress their characters with, this is why linear progression isn't good, it leads to content droughts and severe lack of content with very little relevant content and makes things much harder on devs, devs will never release content fast enough to keep up with gamers in linear progression systems. If their solution to lack of content is time-gated me out of gear, I say "lol", because I know the majority of players are not going to pay $13/month to slowly get gear over the course of 5 months when they already have ALL content on farm and don't need the best gear to do it.

It's also hilarious that another way to make players stay subbed is by designing the current final fight/hardest fight in the game nearly-impossible by making it bugged so that you need INSANE luck to clear it, and not skill. Twintania is only still not killed(besides exploits) because it's a bugged encounter designed to be spammed until you get lucky enough with twisters to clear it, not outskill it, simply OUTLUCK it. It's artificial difficulty to keep players subbed for more money because they know they can't release content as quick as players can clear it and resort to cheap shady tactics like overtuning/bugging a boss to rely sole on luck to kill and not skill. This doesn't even mention the fact it's been disabled for almost 2 weeks now because they can't figure out how to fix an exploit players keep using to kill it.

If that's the future of the game - prolonging content with time-gated gearing that takes almost half a year to obtain, and bugged/overtuned bosses that rely on luck and waiting months for a hotfix or patch "nerf/fix" to happen for when the dev's think it's ok for you to finally kill the boss, then I want nothing to do with such a game and it's shady designs.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

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I would like you to count a guesstimate of the number of hour you already spent on this game, having fun (i hope, else why whould you have done it, it's a game after all). If you did all you said you did you must have played what, 250 hours ? Seems reasonnable ? And you paid what, 30+13 dollars for it ?

You rushed through content like there is no tomorrow, and, heck, now we are tomorrow, and you have nothing left to do. No matter what, this would happen anyway if they added other content. What ? You would like a sky zone to farm ? So what, you would farm it 40 hours a week for three week then say "dude, i have nothing left to do, this game is so boring !".



The problem is not the game, it's you.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

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so this.

It's not a matter of gear anymore, it's about actual gameplay, SE can't think people will keep subbing for at least two more months for only 1 hour of gameplay per week, you can say you're not there yet so it doesn't bother you right now, but it will and a lot sooner than 2.1 hits. Which anyway i doubt is gonna fix this problem.
I'm really curious to know what the japanese side is saying about this.

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Originally Posted by Casper

The problem is not the game, it's you.

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You really don't get what's the problem here, there's no need to rush through content to see it. You level your first job, start the grinding, which is not fun at all but every mmo has some sort of grinding and you can get through that if that's necessary to access the endgame, no big deal. You get your relic, get your DL gear and start doing Coil and that's fun! First week it'll keep you busy to get it done flawlessly, second week you might still have a few hiccups, but after that you can go from turn 1 to 4 in ONE HOUR... and you're done, there's nothing else to do with your main job.
In every other mmo when you reach this point and you still wanna play you'd roll an alt, but what's the point here? You can't experience the endgame with that, so why would you go through all the farming to gear it up? For the look? To show off your tenth relic and fuill DL gear that you'll never use? That sounds extremely stupid to me.
See, the problem is not the content, because Coil is really fun and well done and the way it requires good gear and some farming is actually well thought, but the way they handled it makes everything else you could do after that absolutely meaningless.

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I don't understand what you're trying to say with your post "I still have fun doing the same things over and over so you should too"?

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Reading comprehension, go buy some.

I don't do things over and over. In fact I have variety. You don't. In fact you ask to be able to do coil on multiple classes and cap myth for multiple classes in the same week. Which is doing the same content (coil) over and over again. Compared to me doing a variety of things and not being bored.

My FC and friendlist are fine. I lead a FC and my friendlist is composed mostly of people who joined my FC since I'm the main person to invite in the FC. Friendlist has over 100. FC has 87 (and yes some haven't logged in a while, but we get 15-25 people on at the same time on weekends).

I have to agree here. I am level 37 and have been taking things slowly because I realize what the endgame is. I don't want to burn myself out. And I also will almost 100% not be subbing past a month longer. I have a lot of games to play so don't feel like some hardcores do but I think the battle system is kinda weak and redundant at times and the endgame just looks like a huge bore after the first few to do lists are done. I really hope they come up with some great content.

I know this game had a troubled history. So I guess I give it some slack there. It has been quite a bit of fun riding around with friends and doing quests though at some point I always feel it gets a little old just like every other game. What this game could be though is what keeps people going. I really hope they plan on some seriously good content otherwise what is the point subbing every month for this game? I can only look and admire the world so much before it's onto something else.

And at some point I realize why I am not seriously into MMOs. They get boring. It's as simple as that if you don't live in this game.

BUT some seriously large raids and new content would keep me into the game at least.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I don't want to pay $13/month.

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Bye.

/10char

Well to be honest you need to give us more content for 13 dollars a month. I'm not an MMO drone. I don't like to sit and do the same thing for 6 hours straight on a daily basis. This isn't my job. I guess that is why I am taking this slow. But when the PS4 hits and I start finishing up my Steam backlog I'm just not sure I will have time for this game. There are too many complaints from level 50 players not to notice.

support this thread if you are bored!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Can-I-have-It

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Originally Posted by Stryker

This is basically one of those arguments saying that oh, I came in undergeared and got carried. So because I did it, you should too. Bzzt wrong. being gimped with gear is a problem. Means that your cures aren't doing enough and it means that your tanks have to have higher EHP to compensate. While it is a good way to spread the monotony around, it's not 100% feasible for everyone. I can't go into stuff being undergeared as a tank without feeling guilty. Means that due to my laziness and whatever bullshit reason I throw out, people should have to carry more than their share of the weight? Full DL is overkill for AK, but a couple is a joke. A ring and a bracelet?

Personally I feel guilty if I don't pull my own weight, but apparently not everyone does.

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So let me get this straight: because you think that AK is hard, and that DL is actually needed there (LOL by the way) that you should be given a cookie for your ass-backwards viewpoint?

Erm...yeah.

I feel I have plenty to do atm. I play about 3-4 hours after work on my off day I try to get in 5-6 hours. Right now I've been doing 1-2 castrum runs a night saving for my DL gear. When waiting on DF ive finished fishing and have now moved onto mining although DF waits have only been like 20 min lately for dps.

I'd like to move on and level archer some but I'd prefer to gear up my monk so I'm staying with him at the moment. Some nights though I get caught up in mining and dont even do my nightly castrums. There is so much to keep ME occupied I feel. I cant wait to start crafting leveling other jobs, farming end game gear higher then DL.

I guess I am fortunate because I enjoy doing all these things. If you are one of the people who only enjoy leveling one job and only gearing one job then yes I guess you are going to be bored by this game until about a year from now when there is a lot more content.

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There are too many complaints from level 50 players not to notice.

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The people who are lv 50 AND have done it all AND want to do NOTHING BUT ENDGAME, represent less than 1% of players. And are amongst some of the LEAST loyal. Why would they listen to you? You'll quit for next-MMO in a month anyways.

OP gearset made my eyes bleed, you've obviously never been into Coil.

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Originally Posted by sruon

OP gearset made my eyes bleed, you've obviously never been into Coil.

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lol Coil or not, its true there isn't nothing to do end game. My guild has 2 groups doing coil and my group is starting next week. So far the first 2 groups pretty much logs on for the week, spent 1 day doing coil log off, next day 8 AK cap and done.

fun eh? i'm already in the same boat waiting for my group to start, and with patch 2.1 coming out crystal tower is only ilvl 80 which MEANS, it gives you worse gear t han what coil can provide. Whats the point?

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

So let me get this straight: because you think that AK is hard, and that DL is actually needed there (LOL by the way) that you should be given a cookie for your ass-backwards viewpoint?

Erm...yeah.

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I'm glad you LOLed with your lack of reading comprehension. Never did I say AK was hard. But to stroll in as almost a newborn lvl 50 doesn't make it easy. Especially with how bad most of the games population is. All I said is that sure you can do shit when you're undergeared but that means it puts more strain on the rest of your party to pull you through. As a tank if you have shit HP and def you will get shit on decently hard in AK meaning everyone else has to either DPS faster or healers have to healer more often.

I don't understand how that concept is so hard for you to understand. So maybe you want to get your ass in the right position and take your head out of it. Then maybe you'll be able to understand the difference between getting carried and hard content. AK is not hard, and neither is Garuda. But making sure your gear is sufficient for those instances and future instances is what's important.

Which at this point is a grind, luckily they tweaked the tome drops so you can do some of the other dungeons, but that wasn't the case when this thread was made.

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Originally Posted by ryujinz

lol Coil or not, its true there isn't nothing to do end game. My guild has 2 groups doing coil and my group is starting next week. So far the first 2 groups pretty much logs on for the week, spent 1 day doing coil log off, next day 8 AK cap and done.

fun eh? i'm already in the same boat waiting for my group to start, and with patch 2.1 coming out crystal tower is only ilvl 80 which MEANS, it gives you worse gear t han what coil can provide. Whats the point?

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You people are irrelevant. You'll quit for Everquest next or for Elder Scrolls, even if this was THE BEST GAME EVER, because you can NEVER be satisfied. And you'll never do any side content and consider it a waste of dev resources even. Why would devs ever listen to you? Why would devs even want to attract you? You're the cancer on endgame.

Game just came out, more stuff will be added soon and continue to be added. This is a game, if you have an obsession (call it what you will) and play for umpteen hours to get to end game and complain about nothing to do no once really cares.

I'm just had enough of all the complaining, eliteism, etc... I want to play a game at my pace and find great people to hang out with.