Summoners useless in 24mans?

If you have 3 summoners, 3 dragoons, any other combination of 6 other dps, a warrior and a paladin, youll hit the debuff/dot cap on 1 monster considering yout dpsers are actually dpsing to thier full potential. 3 dragoons have 3 dots they can share, 1 taken from warrior. That brings it up to 21. Rage of halone debuff that is always going to be there 22. Disembowl 23, occasional super virus 25 (takes 2 debuff slots) eye for an eye debuff 26, now you have very few left for the combination of monk, bard, and blm for their dots and/or debuffs. I specifically mentioned the dragoons too because they have the 2nd most importance to keep their dots and debuff up.

Who are you going to tell not to do their full damage output? Your best bet would to not take more than 1 summoner or dragoon, but now the content becomes, as I said, exclusionary, and I personally dont want that crap happening again like in 1.0 ans xi.

As long as they do what they said about crystal tower, which is the 3 separate groups will go accomplish seperate objectives,meaning fighting seperate monsters, it will all be good.

Could still use some improvements on things like Odin Fate though. Or even it out, so only 20 melee attackers can do damage and then it caps out so all other melee people do 0 damage. Because it is kind of silly that events which focus on bringing a lot of people have a cap that prevents you from actually contributing.

It'd be much easier if they cut out the limit on debuffs/dots but made it an option that you only see your own debuffs/dots on a target. Would cut out seeing the potentially huge number of icons filling up your screen as well as solving the issue with the large number of dots and debuffs spread across the classes.

I know they've mentioned before about the groups being split up but you know for certain that there will be at least one fight with a burn phase with all the party members attacking one target so you'll definitely be hitting this issue.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

He means debuff on the any particular enemy is capped. Let's say that there are 10 summoners and they all place up those 3 dots. The enemy now has 30 debuffs on it, if say a dragoon runs up and places his increased piercing damage and his own dot on the enemy, two dots will just fall off the enemy.

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Do you expect a lot of 24 man parties to contain 10 Summoners?

there will not be 24 players attacking the same mobs or boss

three groups of 8 will work towards completing the 24man dungeon in separate ways

The good ol' times of vanilla WoW and 8 debuff limit in 40-man raids. Or was it 16? But yeah anyway, 30 is too low for 24-mans.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

Do you expect a lot of 24 man parties to contain 10 Summoners?

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No, but the problem here is that you will run out of slots on any balanced combination against a single enemy before everyone gets to place their debuffs they need to do their job properly, and using a fourth Summoner just because you happen to have four is going to make it even worse.

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Originally Posted by Krisan

How on earth do you figure that? Out of 24 people, only 18 are potentially debuffing, the other 6 are healers. BLM's only have 1 real debuff, so they are the absolute least offenders. BRD's should have plenty of room to share with the tanks at that point, none of the other DPS really have anything significant or long lasting that I'm aware of.. (Yeah a lot of abilities have debuffs attached, but I can't think of any that last terribly long.)

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DRG : Chaos Thrust -> dot of 360 total potency, last 30s / Phebotomize -> dot of 290 total potency, last 18s / Disembowled : debuff of 10% percing resistance, last 30s, must be used for Chaos Thrust. You basically want DRG to not use their 2 skills with the higher total potency (Full Thrust is at the end of a combo) and a debuff which buff their damages quite a bit.

If they meet up for bosses. There'll be problems. Paladin has 3/4 debuffs on a mob almost constantly, with another 3 depending on situation.

Flash, Scorn, Rage of Halone and Fracture will be up almost all the time. With Pacification/Stun/Silence being situational. One tank has just made more than 10% out of the total limit right there. Out of 24 people. This isn't going to work, assuming a full setup trying to down one boss.

Either content will have to be made such that alliances won't be hitting the same targets all the time, or the cap will have to be worked around somehow. If debuffs get overwritten, hrm, what to overwrite? That critical pacification? Maybe the stun - that won't be needed. Flash - tank can just take more damage right? If Summoners are going to be screwed, the entire alliance will be having issues with content. No having your Whm Aero for more damage. Maybe we'll get total immunity from all debuffs, so stun/flash/rage of halone/etc become moot points so they won't need to be applied.

It's not a whine, just a - seeing that if this is exactly as stated, then more than just summoners are going to be hurt by this.

This is an issue I have been posting about for awhile.

Original thread which they moved/closed: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ially-24-mans.


New thread with a GM saying to post it "Here" but with no link attached: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-mob-can-have.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

Do you expect a lot of 24 man parties to contain 10 Summoners?

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Obviously not a real life scenario. I wasn't even complaining, I was only offering an explanation so the people asking before my post about how they didn't understand what the OP was talking about.

When you offer explanations you try to avoid being overly complicated, simple gets the point across better. Which I did.