For all you warrior tanks out there... end game we are not viable.

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Originally Posted by HollowEarth

gotta keep in mind there is more to this that just the boss hitting a warrior harder.

Warrior does WAY more damage than a boss, there for the boss will be alive for less amount of time. i understand this is assuming a healer can keep a tank alive. if you are cycling your cool downs and a healer knows what to do (stoneskin on a warrior is heaven) you should be fine.

if you play a warrior and have no issues then you understand its alot harder to do than bang your face on the keyboard and tank a boss like a PLD.

fact is a pally is a defence tank simple as that. a warrior has a MUCH high health pool, +healing buffs and a ton of good self heals. what a warrior lacks they can get some another class. to be a good group with a warrior MT you also need healers that know what they are doing as well. one if your spamming cure 2, your doing it wrong. just sayin.

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You say these things but nothing you are saying is really true... It's like you skipped over what everyone else wrote. And your statement "stoneskin on a warrior is heaven" it has the exact same effectiveness on a paladin due to the 20% damage reduction the pld has... actually it will be better on a pld if they have any of their cooldowns currently active... Yes the warrior has some nice tools to keep them a live but when the bosses start hitting harder the tanking advantage shifts more and more to paladins.

As it is now warrior tanks are better for bosses that don't hit the tank very hard but focus on randomly damaging other party members. Such as demonwall boss. Most other bosses have some sort of high damage tank nuke and most of the time it is a magic attack in which warrior has no cooldowns to reduce this damage.

The OP's statement is something I wondered about since before I rolled Marauder back in beta. Cause it's more or less the same in most MMOs..

There are 2+ flavors of tank: one is most defense oriented with least damage output, the other is somewhat less defensive and higher damage output. I'll call them PLD and WAR to keep it easy.

Either:
1. WAR will be fully adequate as a tank in toughest settings. Then because of the higher damage WAR is always preferred.
*or*
2. WAR will be inadequate as a tank in toughest settings. It may be fine in lower settings or when the WAR outgears the fight. But then PLD is heavily preferred.

Best game design is to probably nudge them as close together as possible. But that's not easy, and it's looking like #2 is actually the case here currently. Also keep in mind that this balance can change at any patch.

i was leveling to the warrior as second class for when we need a tank and our guild tank isnt online but im seeing that 30 sec stun versus no cooldown stun and better survivality of palas are too much?
i hope to before i get him to 50 war get a BIG buf or the pld get a nerf

I think it's really quite simple.

If your healers are great, and your DPS is a little lacking for the encounter, and you have a scholar: You can use a warrior.
If your DPS is great, and your healers are made of white mages, and your healers are lacking: a paladin will suffice.

There ARE warriors who have been doing just fine in coil. Group makeup is a little more important when you bring a warrior, and the healers need to be a little more on the ball, but the DPS you gain is simply worth it.

I am a warrior on coil 4 with the FC that has been leading coil progression on Behemoth, yes we are viable.

This is very similar to what happened in Wow during Wrath with Death Knight tanks. They took much more damage than the other tanks, but had much higher self-healing. As is usually the case active mitigation is more important, so DKs were inferior on most fights. Their only advantage was that they had the best magic damage reduction which made them very useful for a few bosses. Warriors in this game lack both he utility and the damage reduction of paladins. Death Knights were eventually fixed by getting a shield along to their self-healing to bring up their damage mitigation on par with others. As it stands right now, there isn't really any reason to bring warriors to progression fights in BC, a gimped tank is just about the worst problem for getting first kills.

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Originally Posted by Sixteen

This is very similar to what happened in Wow during Wrath with Death Knight tanks. They took much more damage than the other tanks, but had much higher self-healing. As is usually the case active mitigation is more important, so DKs were inferior on most fights. Their only advantage was that they had the best magic damage reduction which made them very useful for a few bosses. Warriors in this game lack both he utility and the damage reduction of paladins. Death Knights were eventually fixed by getting a shield along to their self-healing to bring up their damage mitigation on par with others. As it stands right now, there isn't really any reason to bring warriors to progression fights in BC, a gimped tank is just about the worst problem for getting first kills.

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Are you sure you don't mean Cataclysm?

In Wrath of the Lich King, DK's barely took more damage than Warriors or Paladins. Infact, they had similar damage mitigation except Warriors/Paladins could block a static(not a percentage) amount of damage whereas the DK had more "oh shit" buttons(they had no self-healing) and had a higher chance to mitigate a percentage of incoming damage more often(100% mitigation more often from parry). This meant that DKs were terrible on trash, but the absolute best tanks against bosses.

In FFXIV, WARs could heal a static(not a percentage) amount of damage whereas the PLD has more "oh shit" buttons and has a chance to mitigate a percentage of incoming damage more often(20-25% mitigation more often from blocking).

Below you will find a video of a warrior PoV for the first boss in coil. He is not wearing close to the best gear available to him before Coil. He dies at the VERY end, but this could have been prevented with tighter tuned play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iagBjhVfg14

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Originally Posted by Vic_Viper

I am a warrior on coil 4 with the FC that has been leading coil progression on Behemoth, yes we are viable.

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Doesn't change the fact we take an insane amount of damage compared to a paladin. If you think warriors are fine you're just jerking yourself here to post that you're on Turn 4.

Not impressive for one thing and you ignore everything that has been posted. Go brag somewhere else loser.

tl;dr petty bragging from an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Serade

Doesn't change the fact we take an insane amount of damage compared to a paladin. If you think warriors are fine you're just jerking yourself here to post that you're on Turn 4.

Not impressive for one thing and you ignore everything that has been posted. Go brag somewhere else loser.

tl;dr petty bragging from an idiot.

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It does however say that with the correct setup, and good play, a warrior will work just fine in END GAME PROGRESSION, and can in fact PUSH AND LEAD SERVER PROGRESSION. IS the thread topic implying the contrary? Yes. Was his post showing that it is in fact not true, yes.

If you want to talk about your complaints about a WAR's mitigation, there are plenty of topics on the board for you to waste your filth on. If you want to senselessly bash and insult players idiotically, stay the course. Class act right there.

And I even linked your video. :/