Counter to Elitism

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Originally Posted by Grim_Lion

MMO's by nature, are not for casual gamers, and if you'r playing casually you should expect to miss some content and happily accept this. Please dont ruin gaming for the rest of us who have the time for MMO's. Please.

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Sorry, I must have missed the H (for Hardcore) in M.M.O.R.P.G. Oh wait...maybe it's because there isn't one.
And I still don't understand how "getting fucked by the RNG" is enjoyable.

You see, a dungeon is a content, a primal fight is a content.
Same dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over is...not.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sorry, I must have missed the H (for Hardcore) in M.M.O.R.P.G. Oh wait...maybe it's because there isn't one.
And I still don't understand how "getting fucked by the RNG" is enjoyable.

You see, a dungeon is a content, a primal fight is a content.
Same dungeon over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over is...not.

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Its called grinding

its how an MMO keeps you playing

if all the gear was handed to you after a month would you keep playing

and don't give me that social (chill / help with friends, etc etc) garbage

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

Its called grinding
its how an MMO keeps you playing
if all the gear was handed to you after a month would you keep playing
and don't give me that social (chill / help with friends, etc etc) garbage

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Grinding is boring, and a pretty lazy way to keep you playing.
And please...stop the "gear handed to you". Anytime someone says "random is bullshit", this reply bursts into the thread.

Don't you know any other way to give rewards ? Challenge, difficulty, long series of quests ? Does it ring a bell ?
I'd prefer getting my ass kicked for months before winning a fight and getting a reward than beating the crap out of a primal several times a day and still getting nothing.

This way, I'll know I need to improve myself to deserve my gear and not just waiting for a lucky roll.

And, by the way. "Social" is a very important part of an MMO. Otherwise, they just offer nothing compared to offline games, wether it is gameplay, scenario, world or characters.

The actual possibility of truly combating elitism aside, the best work-around I can see is for casual gamers to essentially have some manner of community outside of the game as well, to better bridge the time-gap and actually reduce the lack of experience through these networks. It doesn't actually take that much. Just have a party you normally work with that you can easily stay updated despite not making all the events. In-game features that would help this... probably some equally simple stuff like the old Vanguard-proposed Caravan system, allowing you to log in at your party's location, occasionally skip a small trigger or step of quest-chains (your journal being automatically updated given this choice), etc.

Honestly, the only way I'm going to trust someone new to a dungeon as much as someone experienced to the dungeon is if he or she is coming with people he/she can work well with, and I can trust as a group to fulfill their role. [Multiple consistent parties, one raid]

I'm sure there's a lot more that could expand on this, but I do think this is the right direction. The relatively strange bonuses that would force players with more time played to take on less frequent players for full bonuses doesn't seem nearly so much a service to the casual as some features actually aiding the casuals (or everyone, really, though their advantage is clearest to those who have less play-time available to them) directly.

The new "item level" system probably has a word for you.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Grinding is boring, and a pretty lazy way to keep you playing.
And please...stop the "gear handed to you". Anytime someone says "random is bullshit", this reply bursts into the thread.

Don't you know any other way to give rewards ? Challenge, difficulty, long series of quests ? Does it ring a bell ?
I'd prefer getting my ass kicked for months before winning a fight and getting a reward than beating the crap out of a primal several times a day and still getting nothing.

This way, I'll know I need to improve myself to deserve my gear and not just waiting for a lucky roll.

And, by the way. "Social" is a very important part of an MMO. Otherwise, they just offer nothing compared to offline games, wether it is gameplay, scenario, world or characters.

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If you make content harder, ppl will start to cry for nerfs...

So nobody actually read the OP at all, nice one.

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Originally Posted by Grim_Lion

MMO's by nature, are not for casual gamers, and if you'r playing casually you should expect to miss some content and happily accept this. Please dont ruin gaming for the rest of us who have the time for MMO's. Please.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

^^Pretty much this.

And to all the people who want to do things at their own slow pace or want to skip doing certain content yet don't like feeling left behind as far as gaining loot/achievements, Skyrim is that way. ----->

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i loled. i agree with these, but the topic is about elitism. But its been stated in the whole thread, you cant be rid of it. Your best bet is to maybe start your own shells that go at your own pace and if any elitists show up do what i do and give them the boot.We've had people say our shell would never even beat CC or AV with our set ups. With the same set ups we are getting the relic speed runs, even beating Garuda who for the longest time was giving everyone a hard time even with the cookiecutting way of drgs and blms and wars, and beat it with our own set up and now garuda is a cakewalk for us. So as far as i can see Elitists can suck it!

If they did that most players would just invite their noobie friends before random players anyway, that's what I'd do

To respond directly to the OP- Help is coming, but not rewards for inviting. Cross server content finder, lotting limitations, instant join mass battles and so on.

To reiterate the reality of elitism - Don't subject others to your inability to perform and you'll be fine. That's how to counter it. If you aren't ready to do Raven hard mode, don't join that pickup. On the other hand if your gear makes sense and isn't below being effective at whatever you are doing, no one actually cares.