Focus Classes amongst their respective Jobs

Since PvP will be in here, why not make classes excel at that? Maybe some made-up excuse in the lore will ban job stones or something. Or even buff stats if you're a bare class in a match. Gives a reason to gear a class. Jobs can be for PvE, party play, etc.
I always thought they could have done more with the "specializations" jobs have, especially if they could do 2 to a class later down the road.
Like Conjurer. Switching to WHM could nerf nuke ability, and buff healing and support abilities. A second job for CNJ could be Oracle, focusing on the nuke/enfeebling aspect of CNJ, perhaps through use of high-tier Water/Aero/Stone spells.
Alternatively, Thaumaturge's second job could be Time Mage, utilizing support(Haste) and enfeebling(Slow, Stop for "final" spell) to play different than BLM's sheer power in nuke ability.
But who knows, the fact that class/job share a level makes it weird, would have to do the majority of spell/ability learning by doing quests.
Ofc, just talking out my ass and speculating, haha. Who knows, maybe classes/jobs will be more distinguishable by 2.0 retail anyway.

I'm guessing classes ALREADY excel at PvP because of the increased survivability, at least for 1v1 PvP. Classes have been repeatedly called "better for solo play" because of access to a ton of keep-yourself-alive abilities like Cure, Stoneskin, Sentinel, Second Wind, Sanguine Rite, etc. A Dragoon would be torn to pieces in solo PvP because 5/10 added abilities are wasted on DRG-only abilities instead of stuff which will actually let you take more than 2 hits before dying.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Classes are for solo play, jobs are for party play. Why does that need to change?

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With the exception of BLM, I feel all the jobs can solo as well or better than their class counterparts. BLM was the only job I didn't level up with solo because of how restricted their spells were. I chose to go THM so I'd have Stone and Aero at my disposal.

The last couple of replies are interesting though. Classes should have a place in PvP. It's kind of a shame that's the only thing they seem to really be useful for though.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Classes are for solo play, jobs are for party play. Why does that need to change?

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because classes are worthless in solo.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

With the exception of BLM, I feel all the jobs can solo as well or better than their class counterparts.

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a warrior solo's better than a marauder, even after the steel cyclone changes.
a whm solo's better than a cnj, (regen your self and just nuke like crazy)
a brd solo's better than an arc. (people disagree here but while invigorate keen flurry blood for blood etc may boost your spike damage they cannot keep up with the tp skill spam offered by paeon of war over time.
pld solos better than gla, theres very little in the way of skills you can set that will make up for losing sw damage and dv's mitigation. even more so if you blood for blood your sw gives you a chunk of hp back
a blm can solo better than a thm convert is really nice and sleepga is a life saver for aggro,

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I love classes. They are far superior to use when soloing.

I love the class specific gear. I love being able to use other classes abilities that I've unlocked on whatever class I'm on.

I also love jobs in a party atmosphere. I think BLM needs to be a little more effective, but that's easy by making their job only abilities more effective.

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mrd has no steel cycle which will make it worse all the time.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

With the exception of BLM, I feel all the jobs can solo as well or better than their class counterparts. BLM was the only job I didn't level up with solo because of how restricted their spells were. I chose to go THM so I'd have Stone and Aero at my disposal.

The last couple of replies are interesting though. Classes should have a place in PvP. It's kind of a shame that's the only thing they seem to really be useful for though.

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Yeah, my LS was discussing how THM is basically going to destroy PvP because of access to Sanguine Rite, Sentinel, etc. and also have the best ranged attacks in the game.

If classes no longer share abilities amongst each other then classes lose their advantage and might as well be removed. If they had to change it I'd suggest just removing classes and keeping jobs as their own separate entities. This won't happen, things are looking to stay mostly as they are now just with revamped skills/abilities.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

If classes no longer share abilities amongst each other then classes lose their advantage and might as well be removed. If they had to change it I'd suggest just removing classes and keeping jobs as their own separate entities. This won't happen, things are looking to stay mostly as they are now just with revamped skills/abilities.

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maybe changing alot of he skills will be enough to fix the fact that not all classes are better at solo as they should be, well see. for example if im farming 10 lvl 50 raptors at a time on war, i blood bath steel cyclone and thats an instant cure for over 3k hp which is something i cant do on mrd.

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Originally Posted by Makwa

Since PvP will be in here, why not make classes excel at that? Maybe some made-up excuse in the lore will ban job stones or something. Or even buff stats if you're a bare class in a match. Gives a reason to gear a class. Jobs can be for PvE, party play, etc.

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I think it will honestly be about the same as most PvP composition decisions. PvP usually involves picking people off, and its harder to do that to a member with all his personal defense bases covered as opposed to one that's pure DPS and reliant on the other members. You can likely form a (potentially) higher dps and higher mitigation party with jobs, but seeing as players will do everything in their power to ensure you don't get close to your potential, you'll likely see higher results through less inter-dependent party makeup (classes).

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Originally Posted by Makwa

I always thought they could have done more with the "specializations" jobs have, especially if they could do 2 to a class later down the road.
Like Conjurer. Switching to WHM could nerf nuke ability, and buff healing and support abilities. A second job for CNJ could be Oracle, focusing on the nuke/enfeebling aspect of CNJ, perhaps through use of high-tier Water/Aero/Stone spells.
Alternatively, Thaumaturge's second job could be Time Mage, utilizing support(Haste) and enfeebling(Slow, Stop for "final" spell) to play different than BLM's sheer power in nuke ability.
But who knows, the fact that class/job share a level makes it weird, would have to do the majority of spell/ability learning by doing quests.
Ofc, just talking out my ass and speculating, haha. Who knows, maybe classes/jobs will be more distinguishable by 2.0 retail anyway.

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Hey, speculation is both fun and often helpful. And I'm hoping for the same here. Honestly, I think changing the way abilities are given in general will do more to help classes feel fulfilled and diverse than 'cutting the fat' off choices of rigid abilities though.

On that note: I kind of hope that rather than, in terms of what abilities cross over, having exact abilities built by leveling a class, we actually build more holistic traits. Nothing like the small bonuses or ability-modifying traits we have now, but instead something that moves away from all the modest (even if effective in their own way) cooldown auxiliary abilities, and adding general aspects of gameplay that become central to the class (and to crossed classes).

For example, lets say Archer has a trait called Collusion, which can probably develop into different angles -- something that works similarly to Distract, and then to enmity loss through misdirecting enmity, subtle ability usage, and camouflage. Now, as a Lancer, I'm using this to strike at key times to move my attack's enmity over to the tank, and matching feints with dodges through the 'distract' part of the trait.

Inversely, I could take something like Marauder's Sadist (tp on debilitating effects, by 'tick'), and attach that to my Archer, useful for its slows and bleeds (Bloodletter currently). Or, Marauder's Steadfast on a Pugilist, gaining AP and bonus damage against the attacker according to the knock-back move absorbed or mitigated. Or I could be an incredibly dickish defensive Lancer using Gladiator's Set-up, causing my feints and parries (also blocks if able) to shortly increase my critical strike chance.

However this might work, it should feel more fulfilling than the current Quelling Strike, Chameleon, Bloodbath, Cure, etc secondaries that don't seem to fit that well within the confines of a class. I like the idea of being able to pull stuff like Fire and Cure out of the magic classes, but from a physical discipline, the effects should be replicable without using the exact ability, instead integrating the style and usage into the class's own gameplay.

Jobs will not be eclipsed by classes because of this. A Lancer for instance is simply a lot more open in its choices, with many more roles available to it, than a Dragoon. But a Dragoon may well tear apart a Lancer in terms of dps, and have many added mobility choices entirely unique to that class. High mobility, high physical burst. Good burst CD AoE potential. Dragoon.

The traits it can pick from will likely be limited, and quite not by class exactly (instead, just sheer offensiveness of the trait), while also adding unique traits in addition to Lancer's.

*This would probably be mixed with something having more to do with the weapon styles themselves, to the point of having an incredibly nice javelin throw on an Archer-equipped Lancer, or the old Warrior-Ninja axe-thrower on an Archer-Marauder.

I must be the only person that likes the current system.