Small Rant on Seal Rolls in Hamlet parties

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

What you just posted did none of that...

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Ok, if you say so. Sounds like you are projecting to me.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I wan't to talk about a looting behavior that I find disturbing.

I was in a hamlet party and before the last run, one player asked to switch his loot preference from one of the other drop items to a seal. I wasn't sure at the time why they wouldn't want seals to begin with if they still needed seals but when put to vote by the party leader, I said sure.

At the end of that run, a seal dropped and the guy who changed to seal won the roll over me by 3 points. As soon as he got the seal he gave it to another player who rolled a zero on that seal.

You might think, maybe he felt bad for the guy rolling a zero. Except, that player had already won a seal during our runs.

And while I don't hold ill will toward these two players for doing what they did since I had already won a seal tonight, I can't help but feel robbed since, without the guy who didn't need the seal rolling on it, I would have won the roll. For that matter, the other guy also rolling for seals was wronged by this.

These two players basically doubled the one guy's rolls on an item and at the same time reduced my and the other player's chance for a seal.

I know some of you are going to jump on this thread and say people can do whatever they want with their drops, but we are talking about someone who had no intention of keeping this seal adding an additional roll for his friend. This behavior is wrong and it amazes me that these two players did this right in full view. If these players had divulged what they planned to do if the guy who originally didn't want seals won a seal, I would have surely voted no and I'm sure the other player would have as well.

It is not ok to rig people's chances at drops and SE should do something to ensure this can't happen.

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Honestly I have to agree with you that I think it's a bit of a dirty trick to do something like that. They may have had all the best intentions, but they still cheated the system you had set up.

The only thing you can really do is be wiser in the future. Set up your rules before you get started and take a tough stance against behavior you don't think is fair--be sure to account for this kind of thing. Make it clear that people who don't play by your rules will be kicked and not asked to return.

The group I usually do runs with has a general rule of "don't lot if you don't really need it", meaning don't even roll if it's not going to go from your loot list into your inventory towards a relic.

In my opinion, "It's my drop and I can do what I want with it." isn't a valid excuse, because the only reason to lot on a seal is to use it for the Relic quest and only the Relic quest.

Selling a seal is even worse, because the person doing this is basically turning a profit on an item earned by 7 other people and hindering someone else' progress on Relic at the same time--and if someone I'm in a party with ever does that, I'll want my cut. :)

If it were me, I wouldn't invite those dudes back again, and I wouldn't feel bad to kick people and break up a party because someone doesn't want to play it fair.


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One other thing worth mentioning is that people should consider whether they even want to lot on seals, depending on how serious they are about getting relic. Will you defeat Garuda and Ifrit Extreme before 2.0 is something to consider.

Personally, I've chosen not to work on Relic until 2.0 is released because the quest should be different by then and I am willing to wait and see if it is something I want to do at that point. Right now? No. So when I do Hamlet, I don't lot on seals (just gear), and I would be pissed if someone present either exploited dice rolls like this or sold a seal and profited from the generosity of my help.

I have a question....

Why do people /random on stuff after they open the box? It seems to me when you open the box it automatically randoms between everyone in the group already...so /random again is just doing it a second time. I mean I understand if the person it drops to has the item/seal then they can offer people to random on it but...yeah I am just curious why people do it.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I have a question....

Why do people /random on stuff after they open the box? It seems to me when you open the box it automatically randoms between everyone in the group already...so /random again is just doing it a second time. I mean I understand if the person it drops to has the item/seal then they can offer people to random on it but...yeah I am just curious why people do it.

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I've always wondered this myself to be honest. My group always just let it stay with whomever got it in their loot list if they wanted it.

OP, I think what they did is perfectly fair. It's not up to you what a particular player does with their drops, they lotted for it and won fair and square. After they got the item, it's up to them to determine what to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Miste

I have a question....

Why do people /random on stuff after they open the box? It seems to me when you open the box it automatically randoms between everyone in the group already...so /random again is just doing it a second time. I mean I understand if the person it drops to has the item/seal then they can offer people to random on it but...yeah I am just curious why people do it.

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I know in my LS, we do it because we usually decide beforehand that not everyone will participate for some items. It's usually based on who has what job leveled, and some people just don't use certain jobs. I wouldn't use pug or arc weapons for example, so we're re-randomizing the drops based on usefulness. There is also the case that somebody has already got a drop in that particular party. Let's say we're doing skirmish, and on the first run I get an axe, but on the second run a spear drops to me. Instead of me keeping both weapons, everyone else but me will random for the spear.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I know in my LS, we do it because we usually decide beforehand that not everyone will participate for some items. It's usually based on who has what job leveled, and some people just don't use certain jobs. I wouldn't use pug or arc weapons for example, so we're re-randomizing the drops based on usefulness.

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Right, but if someone who needs the drop gets it in their loot list, that's the same as them having won an 8-way roll, so why do you need to bother re-doing it as, say, a manual 4-way roll. By getting it in their loot list they've already won the internal roll, which means they already beat everyone else who wanted it.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Right, but if someone who needs the drop gets it in their loot list, that's the same as them having won an 8-way roll, so why do you need to bother re-doing it as, say, a manual 4-way roll. By getting it in their loot list they've already won the internal roll, which means they already beat everyone else who wanted it.

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You're right, but it's just how we choose to do things. As to your question, you have better odds with 1/4 than 1/8. Besides, the /random at the end is fun. In my groups, we're usually all on mumble and cheering at the results of the /random. Nobody complains.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

You're right, but it's just how we choose to do things. As to your question, you have better odds with 1/4 than 1/8. Besides, the /random at the end is fun.

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Question: How can you say this and practically in the same breath tell me it was fair for someone to roll at 1/2 in my party while the other two roll at 1/4 for the same item? If 1/4 is better than 1/8, surely 1/2 is better than 1/4. Is it truly your position that it is fair for someone else to have better odds on the same roll? If so, do you do this in your LS parties by allowing other members to give their rolls to others as they see fit when loot drops? After all, all 8 people worked just as hard for that drop even if they don't need or want it, right?

I'm willing to bet you don't and those people don't roll at all. Why? Because it would be unfair for people to lot on something they don't need over people who do even if that lot would be used to give it to their chosen needing individual. Isn't that what the whole need/greed thing that MMO players have been using for well over a decade developed out of?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I know in my LS, we do it because we usually decide beforehand that not everyone will participate for some items. It's usually based on who has what job leveled, and some people just don't use certain jobs. I wouldn't use pug or arc weapons for example, so we're re-randomizing the drops based on usefulness. There is also the case that somebody has already got a drop in that particular party. Let's say we're doing skirmish, and on the first run I get an axe, but on the second run a spear drops to me. Instead of me keeping both weapons, everyone else but me will random for the spear.

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That totally makes sense. I did not mean it in regards of people picking one thing to lot on. One time I was in a Hamlet run where no one picked stuff to lot on so afaik everything was free for all but we still all /random after the box already randomed lol I just thought it was odd. As for skirmish that is normal since usually only 1 weapon drops and there is 8 people there and if you keep running with the same people if something drops to same person again then usually people pass stuff around to be courteous.