The finale of the Arcadion is an absolute disapointment.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I'm not interested in wrestling though, and don't care to learn any of its history or terminology.

Not to say the writers are forbidden from making a storyline centered on wrestling and fans of said wrestling can't enjoy it, but it's a huge ask to expect everyone else outside of the wrestling fandom to care about that kind of thing or insist they need to go do research to understand what happened.

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I have no interest at all in pro-wrestling either and never followed it...but I understood what they were going for and that's probably why it landed for me. I had to put in no effort at all to understand what was going on even though I've never watched a minute of pro wrestling. I'm going to assume that this is because I'm the right age and nationality to have absorbed this the way culture is absorbed, just by osmosis, peripheral and incidental exposure. Dawntrail has taken a lot of inspiration from cultures around the Americas, so it kinda makes sense that the much more modern culture that's landed itself in Not-North America would take a cue from a recognizably modern American cultural institution for its entertainment. Goofy accents and Magitexas wasn't our only representation this expac.

But no, people who don't have that cultural background or interest certainly can't be expected to just automatically "get it". There's quite a bit of FFXIV that's very Japanese that I don't just automatically "get" and have to think about a bit from a perspective I wouldn't normally since it's not my culture. Usually I end up enjoying it more when I do, though there have been a couple-few things I just shrugged my shoulders at and walked on.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Not to say the writers are forbidden from making a storyline centered on wrestling and fans of said wrestling can't enjoy it, but it's a huge ask to expect everyone else outside of the wrestling fandom to care about that kind of thing or insist they need to go do research to understand what happened.

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It's pretty routine for the storytelling of the game though. You really don't have to do research to enjoy it if you simply try to enjoy it rather than nitpick it, but obviously it helps when you understand the references.

They do it a lot where they base things on other FF games or cultures, and when you are familiar with those FF games or cultures you really appreciate the attention to detail.

Eden had a cutscene where we get blasted in space. People that didn't play FF8 don't get it and think it's stupid. But anyone that's seen the summon in FF8 appreciates it a lot. Dawntrail has had countless references to FF9 lore, including in the latest patch, but it would be missed by anyone that didn't play it. The alliance raids are full of FF11 references, but are again missed by anyone that didn't play it.

Stormblood made us face the reality that when you ask someone to revolt, they will say no out of fear of everyone else getting cold feet, or getting arrested when they have kids/family who rely on them being alive. It made us face the reality that most people who want to revolt against something are getting too old to do so. But this isn't appreciated by people that didn't think for a second about revolutions or learn about the history of them.

Point is, the stories do work on their own, but you're always going to appreciate them more if you have at least a slight understanding of what it's referencing.

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Originally Posted by Selsix

Also why are people pretending everyone involved with wrestling is secretly a good person? Are we really going to pretend Vince McMahon isn't the scum of the Earth?

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That's nitpicking, really. Again, if you meet 99.99% of wrestlers in real life, they are good people. I'm not just talking about well-known ones, either, this is right down to people who learn to wrestle but only ever do it in front of 50-100 people. One of them plays a good person and one of them plays a bad person, then afterwards they go and sign any autographs or whatever.

Do they have bad days or bad habits? Sure. Are they perfect? Probably not. But if you put most normal people in the public spotlight, journalists would quickly find something on them, even if it's just a single controversial thing they said or did 10 years ago. Often, their opinions, views, perspectives have changed and improve over time, even if the public do not forgive them for it. My point really is they are normal people, with just as controversial views and habits as any member of the public, except they are scrutinized and judged for it. Doesn't change that they'd likely have a nice and pleasant conversation with you in real life like anyone else would.

For what it's worth, the President turns into a monster. Kinda symbolic.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That's nitpicking, really. Again, if you meet 99.99% of wrestlers in real life, they are good people.

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I feel like you might have some rose-colored glasses here. Just because someone is a wrestler does not mean there's a 99.99% chance they are a good person. At the end of the day, as you yourself said, they are still regular normal people and the idea that 99.99% of regular normal people are good is laughable. Note that I do believe the majority of people are good, I'm not dooming, but it's no where near that number. Regardless, being a wrestler isn't a sign of virtue man. That's just their job, they can be awful people too.

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Originally Posted by Selsix

I feel like you might have some rose-colored glasses here. Just because someone is a wrestler does not mean there's a 99.99% chance they are a good person. At the end of the day, as you yourself said, they are still regular normal people and the idea that 99.99% of regular normal people are good is laughable. Note that I do believe the majority of people are good, I'm not dooming, but it's no where near that number. Regardless, being a wrestler isn't a sign of virtue man. That's just their job, they can be awful people too.

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Case in point. Hulk Hogan.

Yes he killed Gawker, but he was also the one who sabotaged one of the biggest attempts at unionising wrestling. So he actively brought harm upon his alleged peers.

I figured when the bosses were an e-girl that charms their fans and a vampire dominatrix in fetish gear calling you a 'bad boy/girl who needs to be punished' that the tongue-in-cheek would be pretty clear. Or is everyone's brain so cooked they thought it was supposed to be serious?

I loved it.

I loved the absurdity, I loved that ultimately it just wasn't that serious at all.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

I have no interest at all in pro-wrestling either and never followed it...but I understood what they were going for and that's probably why it landed for me. I had to put in no effort at all to understand what was going on even though I've never watched a minute of pro wrestling. I'm going to assume that this is because I'm the right age and nationality to have absorbed this the way culture is absorbed, just by osmosis, peripheral and incidental exposure. Dawntrail has taken a lot of inspiration from cultures around the Americas, so it kinda makes sense that the much more modern culture that's landed itself in Not-North America would take a cue from a recognizably modern American cultural institution for its entertainment. Goofy accents and Magitexas wasn't our only representation this expac.

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I couldn't say if age and nationality matters, given I'm American and in my 40s and yet outside of names like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, The Rock, and John Cena, I know nothing else about wrestling in the USA, lol.

But yeah, there's stuff I don't get in the game either because it's one big "remember or recognize this?" and my answer ends up "no" and the impact deflates completely. The most obvious contrast to this was me looking forward to the Ivalice raids because I'm a huge Final Fantasy Tactics fan, but then proceeding to largely skip the Nier ones for now because I haven't played those games at all.
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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's pretty routine for the storytelling of the game though. You really don't have to do research to enjoy it if you simply try to enjoy it rather than nitpick it, but obviously it helps when you understand the references.

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I don't nitpick the things I "don't get" so much as I just kinda walk through them with apathy, or in the case of Nier, they end up benched for months because there's no personal incentive to get around to them when they feel like "fanservice" for other people and I'm not the intended audience (same with how I skip other pieces of side content not aimed at me).

OP... wrestling isn't real.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I couldn't say if age and nationality matters, given I'm American and in my 40s and yet outside of names like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, The Rock, and John Cena, I know nothing else about wrestling in the USA, lol.

But yeah, there's stuff I don't get in the game either because it's one big "remember or recognize this?" and my answer ends up "no" and the impact deflates completely. The most obvious contrast to this was me looking forward to the Ivalice raids because I'm a huge Final Fantasy Tactics fan, but then proceeding to largely skip the Nier ones for now because I haven't played those games at all.

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It could; I'm in my fifties, so a five to ten year shift with what was current culture while a teenager might affect that kind of thing. Could be regional too, maybe the high school I went to had a lot of wrestling fans or something, I don't recall. I sure picked up knowledge about kayfabe and how people used to take pro wrestling storylines seriously (with an undercurrent of 'this can't all be real, right?') somewhere! But I couldn't pick out Randy Savage in a line up if you held a gun to my head.

Incidentally, the Ivalice raids disappointed me for that reason--not enough Tactics, too much XII, which I'd never played. The music was straight up nostalgia though.

One more post on this, then I'm done.

I haven't cared about pro wrestling in 25 years or so, but I watched Jake "the Snake" Roberts and The Million Dollar Man with my grandpa. I was there when Hogan joined the New World Order. I saw The Undertaker throw Mankind off a steel cage (as God as my witness, he was broken in half!). WCW's Monday Nitro and, later, WWF's Monday Night Raw are how I made friends at a new school in junior high; so, please, spare me the "you don't understand wrestling" line.

Once again, my problem with Arcadion was that the story introduced a real life-and-death situation, then completely negated it with zero consequences at the end, It went from "super serious" to "not serious at all," and did so in rather hamfisted way. It got the Dawntrail treatment, and I felt it to be cheap. If you liked it, fine with me.

As I said in an old post from ages ago, I think the story would have been better served without the psychonecrosis plot, and instead just focused on the soap opera that is professional wrestling. I certainly would have preferred something lighthearted with no heavy stakes. There are a lot of fun stories that could be told about the friendships and rivalries in, and out, of the ring. The thing about wrestling is that (for the most part) everybody is on board with the script. A good writer can keep the WoL in the loop, while making the unfolding events a surprise for us players. It was a perfect opportunity to put our characters in new, unexpected situations, instead of standing around and scowling menacingly. I would have loved a chance to do a promo and call out Brute Bomber, or have Wicked Thunder "knock out" my character with a folding chair and turn heel. So many unused possibilities.

Final thought. I'm sticking to my guns about the President being evil. If he genuinely cared about his performers, he would have stopped the use of feral souls as soon as he knew it became a death sentence, to hell with ratings.

And that's the bottom line, 'cause Stone Cold said so.