You pull you tank question.

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Originally Posted by CheshCa7

You say you play tank and then you try and try to make it sound so complicated "How much I can take", lmao. For most dungeons the answer is simple, w2w. And that's that. I am now really curios how exactly do you play tank.
Also it is always nice to remember some simple things: the tank is called tank, not "puller". Also the tank is not some main character or leader of the party. A tank's job is to hold aggro.

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Well, I play tank for a very long time, so ... I'm not saying I'm "the best" or something, but I consider myself a decent tank. You're saying it yourself: "For MOST dungeons it's w2w". True. For some it's not. I personally go W2W if possible. I try not to pull more than I can handle mainly when I'm running low-level-dungeons in roulettes that are not streamlined for w2w. I'm one of those tanks who uses mitigation and I do all I can not to let anyone die. There, now you know how I tank.

Btw: The dps is also not called "puller".

Going into a dungeon in a group is cooperation, like it or not. But what I hear from most people here is "hey, I want to have fun my way, and all others have to follow that playstyle" ... that's not how it should be. It should be fun for everyone. When I play dps for example, I simply let the tank set the pace. It doesn't hurt me, it's usually not THAT much slower, I go nuts on the mobs the tank has pulled and we finish the dungeon smoothly. Everyone is happy.

Just don't make me play healer, we'd all die at the first trash pack. Repeatedly. :D

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

......... do you even know how it works? It is a very long cool down and if you don't die when it happens the skill does nothing. 50% of the time when a Dark Knight is forced to use it they still die because the healer continues to not heal. So no, the Dark Knight should never be using Living Dead in a random party finder dungeon unless something is going seriously wrong.

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Sounds like you should communicate with your healer and let them know you're gonna use Living Dead, then. Also it's not like you're gonna use it for anything else so why not use it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For the people saying it's ToS for a tank to let someone who pulls die.
It's also ToS for a DPS to pull, it falls undergiving the enemy NPC's advantage, since as a tank I've popped my cooldowns, I don't have the mit to deal with additional mobs right now.

The ToS argument is stupid, it's unprovable and can easily be attributed to anyone.

Wall to wall is fine, but if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall, maybe stop ask why. You don't know as DPS what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

For the people saying it's ToS for a tank to let someone who pulls die.
It's also ToS for a DPS to pull, it falls undergiving the enemy NPC's advantage, since as a tank I've popped my cooldowns, I don't have the mit to deal with additional mobs right now.

The ToS argument is stupid, it's unprovable and can easily be attributed to anyone.

Wall to wall is fine, but if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall, maybe stop ask why. You don't know as DPS what's going on.

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You do literally the same thing whether it's 3 or 6 or 9 mobs. You are doing something incredibly wrong if you "run out of cooldowns" because you can't handle the rhythm of "2 big pulls, boss, 2 big pulls, boss...", because that only forces you to use your cooldowns more efficiently.

You open with your short CD and a heavy cooldown (Arm's Length or 30%, don't use both at once). You'll always, always have either big cooldown available this way, with invuln as a safety net. The only way you mess up is if you start randomly splitting the pulls and wasting your better mitigation on small groups.

The DPS is trying to help you play smarter if anything.

And yes, it's pretty obvious even to DPS players when you have to use a invuln, but before that happens they have no reason to not pull while you and your party have that get-out-of-jail-free card still available. If you immediately melt and have to invuln, then sure, it's probably really stupid for the DPS to continue to pull. Calling it "against TOS" is still a huge fucking stretch though.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

For the people saying it's ToS for a tank to let someone who pulls die.
It's also ToS for a DPS to pull, it falls undergiving the enemy NPC's advantage, since as a tank I've popped my cooldowns, I don't have the mit to deal with additional mobs right now.

The ToS argument is stupid, it's unprovable and can easily be attributed to anyone.

Wall to wall is fine, but if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall, maybe stop ask why. You don't know as DPS what's going on.

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Just how bad is your gear if you're having to use cooldowns on single pulls? An awake healer can keep themselves/a dps alive for that, and they lack the innate 20% mitigation trait.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

For the people saying it's ToS for a tank to let someone who pulls die.
It's also ToS for a DPS to pull, it falls undergiving the enemy NPC's advantage, since as a tank I've popped my cooldowns, I don't have the mit to deal with additional mobs right now.

The ToS argument is stupid, it's unprovable and can easily be attributed to anyone.

Wall to wall is fine, but if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall, maybe stop ask why. You don't know as DPS what's going on.

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If you dont wipe that way the dps was correct in pulling more and if you do wipe that way the main contributer to that wipe is you because any pull that is dicey with 4 people will be a wipe with one person down since you lack the damage to kill enemies before your resources run out. The only thing you are proving is that you dont understand how to play as tank.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

For the people saying it's ToS for a tank to let someone who pulls die.
It's also ToS for a DPS to pull, it falls undergiving the enemy NPC's advantage, since as a tank I've popped my cooldowns, I don't have the mit to deal with additional mobs right now.

The ToS argument is stupid, it's unprovable and can easily be attributed to anyone.

Wall to wall is fine, but if the tank isn't pulling wall to wall, maybe stop ask why. You don't know as DPS what's going on.

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Intent would have to be demonstrated that the goal was to MPK, something of which you can only feasibly do if the DPS were to pull and then subsequently not DPS at all without prior communication. Newer tanks won't know what they really are capable of until they try big pulling to see how it goes.

Intent for lethargy is much more easily derived if you're touting "You pulled that? Nah, you can tank it and die buddy".

ToS is not unproveable, and nor can it be attributed to absolutely anyone.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

I'm also tired of tanks making their solo fights with the boss if the healer or dps dies. You can't even play or practice mechanics of the boss.

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Trade: dps stops running ahead of tank (because their sprint came off cd like 3 sec too late or something), expecting tank to grab the trash off them when it should be dps bringing their hault to tank, and we stop soloing bosses when you mofos die to first aoe or something as ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

You do literally the same thing whether it's 3 or 6 or 9 mobs. You are doing something incredibly wrong if you "run out of cooldowns" because you can't handle the rhythm of "2 big pulls, boss, 2 big pulls, boss...", because that only forces you to use your cooldowns more efficiently.

You open with your short CD and a heavy cooldown (Arm's Length or 30%, don't use both at once). You'll always, always have either big cooldown available this way, with invuln as a safety net. The only way you mess up is if you start randomly splitting the pulls and wasting your better mitigation on small groups.

The DPS is trying to help you play smarter if anything.

And yes, it's pretty obvious even to DPS players when you have to use a invuln, but before that happens they have no reason to not pull while you and your party have that get-out-of-jail-free card still available. If you immediately melt and have to invuln, then sure, it's probably really stupid for the DPS to continue to pull. Calling it "against TOS" is still a huge fucking stretch though.

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If I start a fight, against 3 mobs I'm still using Cd's because this is the fight, these 3 mobs, time to kill 3 is the same as time to kill 6. If I've popped these and then you as a dps get bored and decided you want more mobs and run off an puil when it is not the DPS's role to pull, as taught to players via the novice hall. Then you've given advantage to the npc enemies as I don't have the mit and it's not you job to pull.

My point was the whole ToS argument is stupid as you can make a logical argument for both side being ToS. If you pull and the tank is not ready for those mobs, you're getting stomped out by those mobs until the tanks ready to deal with them. Leave tanking to the tanks. The novice hall covers that it's the tanks job to pull mobs, therefor the dev's have made their stance on this clear, tanks pull dps don't. I'm all for people having dialogue with one another and discussing as a team, but what happens the majority of the time, is a member of DPS get's bored, mid way through a smaller pull, so they use their range attack to grap the next pack, which the tank and healer may not be ready for, no discussion no can we go faster, just here deal with this too because I've got the attention span of a 5 year old. At the end of the day nothing changes, DPS are selfish players that only think of themselves. DPS love saying Tanks have ego, but we pale in comparison to DPS giant egos.

By the same logic every tank doing more than a single pull is "against ToS". If the DPS can't have awareness of the tank's situation then by the same token you as tank can't have awareness of the healer's situation. How do you know you aren't accidentally griefing by dragging along some poor healer without knowing their cooldown situation? How do you know the DPS are up for the task of killing bigger groups fast enough, for that matter?

See how silly it gets? You have to constantly assume everyone is the worst player ever not to be toxic by this logic.

The DPS assuming you have basic competence is not griefing. It's not ego either.