Unpopular Opnion: Dawntrail MSQ one of the best yet! [Spoilers]

Although I wasn't a fan of DT, I'm happy to read and see how other people saw things and why they enjoyed them so I can better understand what the expansion is aiming for. The thing I can't really accept though is the take on Bakool Ja Ja... He doesn't just flip motivations and question himself, the entirety of his core personality and his entire moral compass flip on a dime offscreen overnight after losing a single battle. Basically in the span of one cutscene, he fundamentally experiences an almost comically breakneck personality change that'd come across as brain damage in other stories (Not insultingly, other stories have used neurological trauma as a device before). In one cutscene, he went from totally happy to endanger thousands of innocent lives for the slimmest advantage to someone with an intense respect for life and the people around him. Maybe I'm missing something but this just does not make sense to me unless I'm trying extremely hard to view the story in a positive light without questioning anything.

Odd really, considering the amount of negativity I've been reading about it, how it almost feels 'wrong' to admit that I enjoyed Dawntrail.

However, I did enjoy it - due in part to the fact that it delivered on exactly what was 'promised' during the later stages of Endwalker: made us less 'Warrior of Light' (in fact I don't recall that title being used even once in DT) and more 'Adventurer'.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Odd really, considering the amount of negativity I've been reading about it, how it almost feels 'wrong' to admit that I enjoyed Dawntrail.

However, I did enjoy it - due in part to the fact that it delivered on exactly what was 'promised' during the later stages of Endwalker: made us less 'Warrior of Light' (in fact I don't recall that title being used even once in DT) and more 'Adventurer'.

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You should never feel bad for enjoying something other people didn't like. This is coming from someone who thinks DT is a narrative trainwreck.

That being said, I've noticed that those who enjoyed this expansion seemed to buy into the concept and insert their own narrative in between the lines, while those who dislike it tend to be more critical about the logic behind everything and general narrative structures. For example, you said you enjoyed the fact that we were more "adventurers" this expansion but honestly I have no idea where you're seeing this. We spent half the time intervening in the politics of another nation in a rite of succession in order to avoid all-out-war between nations, opting to seat a highly unfit ruler rather than a warmongerer, then spent the latter half of said expansion stopping a massive calamitous star-wide invasion from a highly technologically advanced shard that has the ability to fuse into our reality and even has a massive timewarping advantage. There wasn't even any adventure behind the "city of gold", gulool ja ja basically knew where it was the whole time.

I actually went into this expansion wanting a refreshing, low stakes adventure in the jungle with some of the scions. That is what we were promised, and instead we got two different stories smooshed together starring a brand new character that was set up to fail. Both of which were not very well written, full of plot holes and contrivances.

I'm not trying to shame you for enjoying DT and anyone who does is just rude. I just think it's important to have constructive criticism and understand why some people liked it and others didn't.

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Originally Posted by Soxxx

Although I wasn't a fan of DT, I'm happy to read and see how other people saw things and why they enjoyed them so I can better understand what the expansion is aiming for. The thing I can't really accept though is the take on Bakool Ja Ja... He doesn't just flip motivations and question himself, the entirety of his core personality and his entire moral compass flip on a dime offscreen overnight after losing a single battle. Basically in the span of one cutscene, he fundamentally experiences an almost comically breakneck personality change that'd come across as brain damage in other stories (Not insultingly, other stories have used neurological trauma as a device before). In one cutscene, he went from totally happy to endanger thousands of innocent lives for the slimmest advantage to someone with an intense respect for life and the people around him. Maybe I'm missing something but this just does not make sense to me unless I'm trying extremely hard to view the story in a positive light without questioning anything.

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That was my issue with the entire expac, in some places they seemed to want to have 5 cutscenes exploring the importance of some biennial aspect of a culture we likely will never come across again, and then with massive significant character arc they just glaze over it as fast a possible in 1 cutscene with a couple lines. I genuinely think that's why Wuk is so unpopular, because the writers didn't focus on any of her growth moments and allow her to develop as a full character, instead they just kept her as 2d preachy goof with no emotional depth.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Odd really, considering the amount of negativity I've been reading about it, how it almost feels 'wrong' to admit that I enjoyed Dawntrail.

However, I did enjoy it - due in part to the fact that it delivered on exactly what was 'promised' during the later stages of Endwalker: made us less 'Warrior of Light' (in fact I don't recall that title being used even once in DT) and more 'Adventurer'.

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You are not even an adventurer, you are babysitting. The adventurer here was Estinien, don't confuse things.

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Originally Posted by Icycrits

You should never feel bad for enjoying something other people didn't like. This is coming from someone who thinks DT is a narrative trainwreck.

That being said, I've noticed that those who enjoyed this expansion seemed to buy into the concept and insert their own narrative in between the lines, while those who dislike it tend to be more critical about the logic behind everything and general narrative structures. For example, you said you enjoyed the fact that we were more "adventurers" this expansion but honestly I have no idea where you're seeing this. We spent half the time intervening in the politics of another nation in a rite of succession in order to avoid all-out-war between nations, opting to seat a highly unfit ruler rather than a warmongerer, then spent the latter half of said expansion stopping a massive calamitous star-wide invasion from a highly technologically advanced shard that has the ability to fuse into our reality and even has a massive timewarping advantage. There wasn't even any adventure behind the "city of gold", gulool ja ja basically knew where it was the whole time.

I actually went into this expansion wanting a refreshing, low stakes adventure in the jungle with some of the scions. That is what we were promised, and instead we got two different stories smooshed together starring a brand new character that was set up to fail. Both of which were not very well written, full of plot holes and contrivances.

I'm not trying to shame you for enjoying DT and anyone who does is just rude. I just think it's important to have constructive criticism and understand why some people liked it and others didn't.

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Totally understand where you're coming from. And in fairness, I never said I thought it was perfect/amazing etc - only that I enjoyed it.

There were definitely a fair number of head-scratch and WTF moments in there though.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Totally understand where you're coming from. And in fairness, I never said I thought it was perfect/amazing etc - only that I enjoyed it.

There were definitely a fair number of head-scratch and WTF moments in there though.

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I actually enjoyed a lot of aspects of the story too, I really went in with an open-mind. Such an open mind that I ignored a lot of redflags on my playthrough. I'm just frustrated because there were so many balls dropped that would've elevated this story to higher levels. Heck, most of my problems with Dawntrail aren't even the narrative itself, but more so the lack of believable character writing. The zones were breathtaking, the dungeons were fun. The music was immaculate. You're not crazy for enjoying yourself, you're totally valid.

THe story was quite good. The things people don't like are
1.) the lack of main character syndrome.
- for some people everything has to be "all about me". This really limits the amount of good story-telling that can be done. These people need to get some perspective in the game and out.

2.) They don't like wul lamat.
- Just like they didn't like zero. You don't like brooding women. You don't like happy all-out there women. I'd ask what they want, but I just don't care because these people find someone to complain about in every expansion. In stormblood it was Lyse. in heavensward it was alphinaud. In shadowbringers... well idr any complaints about shadowbringers but thats more of a me issue I'm sure. Point is, some people will never be happy outside of a single expansion. We can't have any story be the same as the one expansion you liked. Sorry about your bad luck but learn to live with it. I mean the complaints are so moronic. "Wuk lamat talks too much" Oh sorry the MAIN CHARACTER of the story has more dialogue than others. STRANGE how that works isn't it? Have you ever read a book in your life? that is how it works.

3.) They didn't like the family-diechotomy / motivation for Zoraal ja.
- I get it, you can't relate to family issues and expectations. But with all the people who play this game and watch anime I was almost certain people would understand Zoraal Ja's motivations as they are a common anime trope. This story had 3 main conclusions though, so even if one fell flat for you personally, then it's nbd. Not everyone will connect with every story beat on a personal level.

4.) They think that world-building is boring.
- Some people just want to be right in the action all the time. Part 2 of the story makes very little sense if we didn't build up our new characters over part 1. It was an integral part of telling THIS story. I'm sorry that it was boring for some people, but we go through this nearly every expansion. It was just a little longer in this one because we had so many more people to learn about than ever before. Every expansion usually has a mystery to figure out to over the course of the expansion too, but this one did not get it's big mystery until after part 1 of the story. This is FINE for some stories. We don't need to fall into a story pattern of exposistion for 1 zone and then hell-breaks loose for the other 5 zones. It only makes sense to do that in stories were a threat has already long been established. Like with garlemald. Sometime y'all forget that this is a story game first and everything else second, and then somehow you're upset about that. I truely feel that the players of this game ruin the good things about it just like they're doing now.

Can't wait to compete against our fellow Scions! Oh boy! -_-

Have to agree.. It felt over all more interesting than many other expacs. It is not like a super epic storyline like EW was, and I can at least relate to some criticism but this hate is so exaggerated.