So Nobody is gonna say it ...ok

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Originally Posted by Emitans

Fem orcs are right there!

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Yeah, but some cowards people don't consider muscles on women attractive.

there is like, what, +500 page thread where people wish and pray and rave for beastly, not anime-cutesy hrothgals

and now it's problem for 2 maybe 3 people? :'D

Female Hrothgar are beautiful and look exactly how they should.

I don't really see the issue!

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

The female Hrothgar look like males, every combination tried is the same a very male look. Now don't get me wrong that's fine too but at least add a few more feminine faces maybe take out the silly chest slider and put that money to 2 more feminine faces.This is my opinion but would like to hear if others are of like mind or if way off. tyvm

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I think we need to see how more hairstyles contribute to the femininity. Personally I'm hoping for more too. The bodies although muscular and somewhat masculine seem better to me than what I expected to be more of a Roe clone.

It will be interesting to see what the modding community does with the race.

I have a male Hrothgar sitting in Greatwood in Main Story after a skip in Shadowbringer's. I could never really get into using him much. He's certainly scheduled for a sex change upon release and potentially another skip.

Was personally hoping Story Skips would be part of the release although given nothing has be said relative to this to my knowledge I don't think we're getting free ones. Mainly interested in story skips given my characters are all 90.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I'm not sure if I didn't express myself clearly or if you need to work on your reading comprehension. The OP complains how female Hrothgar are too masculine, I'm saying that it's stupid how male Hrothgars are allowed to look bestial and female Hrothgars are essentially just furry Femroes. I'm tired of games doing that. Not every female character needs to be a supermodel. This annoyed the hell out of me in WoW with Trolls and Orcs. It always reminds me of the meme where male characters all look different and female characters are just human women with different colored skin (and sometimes animal ears).

I LIKE the Hrothgar hunch. I like that they have a snout. I wish Hrothgals had the option to have one, too.

In the rest of my post, I tried to point out that not everything is designed for everyone. I'm personally really freaking sick of every woman in every game needing to look the same because otherwise Gamers (TM) will get their panties in a twist and cry woke or whatever. Because, apparently, every single woman in every piece of media has to be attractive *exclusively to them*. I would personally never play a female Au Ra or Midlander, but I'm not here on the forums telling the devs to change them, so I have no idea what cognitive dissonance you're talking about.

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You are indeed correct in that you did not articulate yourself well enough to express a favorable view of the hunch I'll concede on that, however in regards to one's reading comprehension the fault is yours alone. I'll do my best to convey how your argument is flawed as well as explain to you what cognitive dissonance/hypocrisy is.

1: the OP takes issue with how the male & female faces are similar not the entirety of the race itself, the use of the term feminine is used as means to convey a form of distinction and the desire for that distinction as it is not known to anyone except the OP as to what standard of femininity the OP has, if the OP had requested "more cute faces" then the topic wouldn't be Masculine vs feminine.

2: the examples you made in your previous post are exactly what is emblematic of hypocrisy especially when you state the obvious that not everything is for everyone, the only difference is as you pointed out is that you're not vocal about it. Also the OP is not requesting changes rather they're asking for additions, these are not the same and further demonstrates yours as well as others lack of reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

aaaaah, a devil's advocate (and one of the most arrogant post I ever saw on this forum, but it's a good taunt, so I'll give you that). Let the feast begin. More seriously : people are reactive to this request because, for a lot of FFXIV races, females have no way of looking more masculine. And not "masculine" in the androgynous sense; masculine in the "I don't lool like someone who breaks a nail as soon as she wants to handle something heavier than a book" sense. People understood very well that the OP wasn't asking to remove existing faces; they're against the slightest possibility of making something more "feminine", which would be perceived as a betrayal for the race's identity. All in all, you're the one who's misunderstood the thread: people are against the proposed variety, nothing more, nothing less.

It would have been good, however, if the OP had also been more specific in its request. Because "femininity" is a vast concept, with many definitions that vary from culture to culture and even from person to person. In concrete terms, if femininity is conceived as a dismoprhism vis-à-vis the male sex, then it's already present in the Hrothgar model. The muzzle is narrower, the jaw less square, and the eyes slightly larger. It seems to me that, even without the breasts, it would be possible to see a photo of Hrothgar and recognize it as female.

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A CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED!!!
The 1st part of your post is just sophistry in what can be considered masculine or feminine & im not gonna go to far into it except to point out a flaw to use as an example
1: female highlanders can be considered masculine due to their posture if that is a basis for ones subjective view of a masculine feature
However despite this potential masculine trait the thighlander is obvious in its distinction from its male counter part.

proposed variety does not betray the "race's identity" as changing the identity changes the race itself, is OP asking to remove the fur, tail ,posture or any other feature? The answer to this riddle is no.
I don't know how what you're basing the "race identity" off of but without any reasoning I'm just pass over on this.

It's truly remarkable that in the same breath you concede that you're not sure as to what the OP means when asking for feminine faces all the while saying everyone knows what the OP is asking for

You must be really bored, Ryan. Maybe play a game? There is this critically acclaimed MMORPG I heard of that might be worth a try. Eternal Fantasy or something.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

A CHALLENGER HAS APPEARED!!!
The 1st part of your post is just sophistry in what can be considered masculine or feminine & im not gonna go to far into it except to point out a flaw to use as an example
1: female highlanders can be considered masculine due to their posture if that is a basis for ones subjective view of a masculine feature
However despite this potential masculine trait the thighlander is obvious in its distinction from its male counter part.

proposed variety does not betray the "race's identity" as changing the identity changes the race itself, is OP asking to remove the fur, tail ,posture or any other feature? The answer to this riddle is no.
I don't know how what you're basing the "race identity" off of but without any reasoning I'm just pass over on this.

It's truly remarkable that in the same breath you concede that you're not sure as to what the OP means when asking for feminine faces all the while saying everyone knows what the OP is asking for

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The very principle of the thread forces us to make sophistry about femininity and masculinity: as the OP has at no point specified what he or she means by this, it's open to personal interpretation. We could, of course, try to come up with a precise definition of these terms before continuing the "debate"; but I think we'll still be stuck on this question several weeks from now, and neither you nor I have the time (or inclination) for that. So we're going to have to accept a few shortcuts, in order to keep the conversation moving forward.

Getting back to FF, the game offers different versions of femininity. But each version is intrinsically linked to the race played. The tomboyish side of the Roe is not reproducible in the Miqote, whose features and mannerisms are more "kawai". Midlanders are cuter than Highlanders, in appearance, emotes and gait. In short, choosing a race also means choosing the type of femininity you want to play. Which is more or less in line with reality: a French 'woman' does not conceive of femininity in the same way as a Japanese woman; who does not conceive of femininity in the same way as an Eastern European woman. The way in which femininity is conceived is linked to the social structure of a given people, and FF reproduces it relatively faithfully.

Hence my assertion that proposing a variety here would be inconsistent with the identity of the race. No, this identity is not limited to the ears, fur and tail, but also to the way of speaking, the gait, the culture... And the relationship between the sexes. From that point of view, the 'variety' that you defend can be seen as a betrayal of the Horthgar identity, because it implicitly transforms the cultural and social relationship that the race has with femininity. To give a final example, and to talk a little about these gentlemen: if we were allowed to create extremely tall, muscular male Viera, much less androgynous than those present here, then we'd also be touching on the lore of the race because this difference in physique is less suited to the idea of female Amazons, whose males hide away to carry out their task in the shadows.

As for your last sentence: there's no contradiction between pointing out that the op lacked precision and saying that the speakers interpreted it in such and such a way. If the op doesn't bother to specify, then implicitly they accepts that people interpret it in a certain way; and that's exactly what has been done on this thread, with people having understood this question of femininity in a rather uniform way. Come on: if we're going to enjoy a good old-fashioned forum brawl, let's do it properly and not settle for elyptic, prideful little phrases ("that's remarkable"; "it's incredible that you don't understand" and all the derivatives).

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Originally Posted by Minali

You must be really bored, Ryan. Maybe play a game? There is this critically acclaimed MMORPG I heard of that might be worth a try. Eternal Fantasy or something.

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I've got a lot of downtime at work and I want some amusement from you people. Pretty sure my intent was disclosed in my 1st post

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

I've got a lot of downtime at work and I want some amusement from you people. Pretty sure my intent was disclosed in my 1st post

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Do you have friends irl that you talk to like this? No, right?