Character Growth: Leveling is part of RPGs

I don't have too much of a gripe in either direction at the moment.

However, In my opinion the game had a better balance around 1.18. I had started at release. Quit, and came back at 1.18 and enjoyed the game again at that time because it had seemed partying and group leveling was back in effect. I would see shouts all the time starting at nanawa puks. Camps were developing for all level ranges. Took me two months to get two 50s. While like I said, I don't mind the pace as it is now. I restarted with a new char in April and will soon have all 50 dom/dow with a very minimal amount of pl'ing.

Won't pretend to have an answer for how to strike a better balance at this point. Just wanted to say I thought 1.18 had it ideal to me.

This idea that people who don't want a long leveling curve are just FPS-playing-instant-gratification-wanting-ninnies is bogus.

Have you dudes played ANY games besides FFXI? GW1 gets you to max within a few hours. UO didn't even have levels but skill levels. Doesn't mean there was no effort involved in those games, or no community, or no exploration, etc.

In fact, this entire argument is pretty much pointless. What matters is not how long it takes but whether there is enough content to sustain however long you want the curve to be, and these days, massive grinds is NOT going to fly unless they want to cater only to the shattered remnants of FFXI players. Grinding monsters all day for one bubble of exp is not a premium experience worth a subscription fee.

I agree with these notions like "it's about the journey, not the destination" but after your first job in FFXIV there is no journey, just massive grind. It's a huge design flaw and making it longer isn't going to make it a journey it will make it an even bigger waste of time than this game already is.

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Originally Posted by casker

UO didn't even have levels but skill levels.

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I'd just like to point out that skill levels in Ultima Online were pretty much levels in themselves unlocking skills and stats that you didn't have previously.

And they took a extremly long time to master some of them. Animal Taming was insanely long but one of the best skills you could have.

*headdesk*

The numbers don't lie. Even if you take "Some other answer than above." As completely behind "Leveling is too fast." Camp, it's a straight 70/30 ratio in favor of leveling staying the way it is or going faster.

Again, this thread is the vocal minority screaming louder because their position is threatened same as the upteen million other "Nooo! I'm not wrong! SE don't listen to the current bulk of your player base!" threads out here made by the same thirty people.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Again, this thread is the vocal minority screaming louder because their position is threatened

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http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/to.../5b/4583_2.jpg

The majority says leveling pace is good as it is, with only 20,7% saying it's too fast. On the other hand, the statement from one of the interviews about 2.0 leveling pace being faster seems to cater to the minority (14%) of players. So no, it's not the vocal minority. If anything, it's the 75,3% majority wanting the same leveling speed or slower.

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made by the same thirty people

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...with the same thirty people trying to beat them into the ground.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

Sadly these polls aren't accurate when they don't have a way to do the poll through game considering the amounts of players that don't actually visit the forums at all. Just putting that out there.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

Curious to know how many players did the poll versus how many total active players there were at the time the poll was done.

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The poll doesn't agree with your point of view. The poll must therefore be false.

I would assume anyone who didn't take the poll felt dandy about the leveling speed, or else they would've felt strongly enough to come on the mainsite to complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

...with the same thirty people trying to beat them into the ground.

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Except that latter 30 beating them into the ground actually represent the current majority. Sorry, you still lose out in that argument.

The Poll represents all players who participated in the poll, regardless of whether or not they use the community site.

To be completely honest, the community site in general has a bad reputation to begin with. Case in point - the fact that there are several threads discussing one topic right now, something that should be locked down upon, but the people who want to raise a stink about being outvoted didn't seem to get the hint in the last round of thread-locking.


As far as the 'interview' stating that leveling is going to be faster. I'll beleive it when I see it. But more importantly, we don't know how the curve extends past level 50, and let's remember that, since Yoshi-p is encouraging leveling multiple classes, any increase in the curve grows exponentially across all jobs.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Except that latter 30 beating them into the ground actually represent the current majority.

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On these forums, maybe. Ingame? Who knows.

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Case in point - the fact that there are several threads discussing one topic right now, something that should be locked down upon, but the people who want to raise a stink about being outvoted didn't seem to get the hint in the last round of thread-locking.

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The thread-locking didn't have much to do with the topic but with the attitude of several people unable to handle others expressing a different opinion in a calm and objective way.

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As far as the 'interview' stating that leveling is going to be faster. I'll beleive it when I see it. But more importantly, we don't know how the curve extends past level 50, and let's remember that, since Yoshi-p is encouraging leveling multiple classes, any increase in the curve grows exponentially across all jobs.

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I agree. It still is a point worth keeping in mind though.

My definition of grind is "doing the same thing over and over." This means that there is no content that I could do in order to make my time better used in a game.

A good example of this is AION around launch (before they added a bunch of content to fill the gaps). I do every quest and campaign I can to about 1/2 to 3/4 of a level. Then there is NOTHING but repeatable quests that do nothing to hide the fact that I'm grinding my buttocks off my uncomfortable chair (Back when AION first launched I had a horrible chair lol. It gave me back problems).

AION has 60 levels now, and just barely has enough story and quest content to justify one character. Final Fantasy XIV has you leveling from lv1-lv50. And leveling from lv50 again. And leveling from lv1-lv50 again, and again, and again. And this game has barely enough story/grand company/class/job content to justify levelling ONE class to lv50 without grinding your way to kingdom come.

I just got my first lv50 (MNK ftw!) and I'm already done with the main scenario quests, the pugilist quests, the monk quests, every Grand Company/Maelstrom Quest except a fair few, and have almost done every instanced dungeon this game has to offer. I'm pretty much at the end of the game. All I need is 50,000 seals (which is easy peasy), one more promotion, my relic weapon quest, 2 more Grand Company Quests, and I've finished Final Fantasy XIV as a Final Fantasy Game.

Leveling isn't a main part of Final Fantasy as much as it is its backbone. It's the infrastructure in which the story lays itself onto. Final Fantasy XIV doesn't need each class to take longer. Getting 4 classes to lv50 means levelling up 200 times. There's far too much leveling up in this game to justify its lack of content.

Want character growth like a Final Fantasy game? Players are grinding to lv50 on their alt classes because there's pretty much no content left after one lv50. Give us content to justify slowing down and smelling the roses, because right now there are no roses left to smell. Make it so that once we get to lv50 we only hit the tip of the ice burgh. Then the people who want a Final Fantasy story - who want character development - can finally slow down to smell the roses.