Are there any plans to fix the 'Haurchefant' localization?

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Originally Posted by Telkira

nice to see how you're revising your own posts because you know how wrong you are.

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Like the revision you made to your initial post?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

At this point you're either trolling or simply not budging, and I don't think there is much point in continuing to debate.

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Well, there was no 'debate'. All I've received so far were insults, with the closest thing so far I've received being nothing more than fallacious arguments that do little more than assert the opposite opinion in a rude, sarcastic, or derogatory tone.

I've been critical of SE's approach to localization from the very beginning, since I've always valued vision consistency, and with regard to bridging the cultural gap in an inherent manner brings about several dilemmas which will ultimately undermine the integrity of the end product. Haurchefant's butchering is a product of that well-intentioned, but futile approach. It serves as an indictment against the approach as a whole, and only lends credence to my central position and further disparages those who would support his sexually-charged and awkward nature being removed.

Honestly, the more I think about it and the more times I watch it play out, the more angry I get that they would even assume that such content would be worthy of censoring just to appease those who would rather focus on a single part of his character and not appreciate the comedy of the interactions overall and how they fit in with the scene.

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Originally Posted by Telkira

Well, there was no 'debate'. All I've received so far were insults, with the closest thing so far I've received being nothing more than fallacious arguments that do little more than assert the opposite opinion in a rude, sarcastic, or derogatory tone.

I've been critical of SE's approach to localization from the very beginning, since I've always valued vision consistency, and with regard to bridging the cultural gap in an inherent manner brings about several dilemmas which will ultimately undermine the integrity of the end product. Haurchefant's butchering is a product of that well-intentioned, but futile approach. It serves as an indictment against the approach as a whole, and only lends credence to my central position and further disparages those who would support his sexually-charged and awkward nature being removed.

Honestly, the more I think about it and the more times I watch it play out, the more angry I get that they would even assume that such content would be worthy of censoring just to appease those who would rather focus on a single part of his character and not appreciate the comedy of the interactions overall and how they fit in with the scene.

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yeah, you really are that stupid. i can't believe you keep just on this one point. ok let me enlighten you.

the whole world isn't japan. every country has different values and video game companies have to adapt to that. in the perfect world that you seeminly want..yes that would exist but in reality it doesn't. i mean would you also like the addition of the womans place is in the kitchen and what the man says goes, if a woman is spotted without proper garb she punished (from the arab country)? no no wait i know you want the capitalist regime idea from north korea where its one supreme leader and if you say or do anything they don't like you and your family are sent to the camps or executed.

I mean lets go all the way here. just can't push one countries values on the whole world

No because a lot of people like how he is characterized already compared to a raging horn dog that only cared about you because he wanted to get in your pants?

I dont get why so many people are adamant about Japanese Haurchefaunt. His original personality just wasnt that well written, he was a walking inappropriate archetype that frankly the west wouldnt have found as appealing. They'd either find it mildly amusing or completely turned off, especially to a character we're actually supposed to take seriously.

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Originally Posted by Telkira

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...sions-of-FFXIV

No.

The 'wrong' thing was not only that, but also making the changes to begin with, which is something he explicitly apologized for. You're deliberately cherry-picking, and in that quote, he's simply referring to processes. Yes, it's implied somewhat that he believed that the change was warranted to avert controversy, but he would admit that the change itself was wrong.

When videos illustrating the differences between the JP and the EN/FR/DE cutscenes were posted online, some fans spoke out in protest. After internal discussion, it was decided that efforts would be made by the EN, FR, and DE LOC teams to bring Haurchefant's characterization gradually closer to that of the JP Haurchefant over the course of future updates. Moreover, the development team enacted a new policy that all cutscenes would be fundamentally the same, so that users across all regions would have more similar experiences.

However, as Yoshi-P stated, these decisions were made without consulting with the relevant parties, which resulted in a growing discrepancy that would culminate with patch 2.3's cutscenes.

As the individual who pushed for these changes, I would like to sincerely apologize to our fans, as well as Yoshi-P and our scenario team. It was never my intention to deprive our players of a memorable character or elaborate cutscenes, and to this day I deeply regret how I handled this situation.

He flat out admits that he deprived us of a "memorable character" by watering him down. The error is very clearly more than just the fact that it was a deviation from their normal processes, but also because the modification itself should not have been made. Inconsistencies of this nature in particular rise to the level of censorship, rather than mere localization.
He flat out states that his decision to push for the change was wrong, both in the sense that it was a deviation from procedure and that the change wasn't wrong to begin with, otherwise they wouldn't have made the decision to "make him closer to how he is supposed to be written.

He requests to make you his "personal steed" in the ENG script...

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Yea it wasnt his intention to deprive anyone of memorable character. Thankfully he didnt and nothing of value was lost. I'm the one cherry picking? Yea okay sure buddy. You're not doing that whatsoever :))

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Also, the better version is, and will always be, the original version, the real version, i.e. the version we got in the JP translation.

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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ieldboots1.jpg

I think you forgot your lunch at home.

Do you wanna maybe expand on your anime comment from your previous post a little bit? I would love to hear your ideas on that a bit more :)

thinking about it. im done with this particular thread. the dude is obviously horny to have og haurchefant back and uses localization as his excuse then basically craps on westerners who have different values because they don't adhere to japanese values. end of this all. he either really stupid or just a bored troll. im not sure which but what he wants isn't attainable and i don't think he will ever face up to this fact.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

i chalk it up to being bull headed and not budging. has totally ignored me because has no actual way to fight back. so picks easy to fight stuff.

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Literally all you did was insult me and misrepresent my arguments as "forcing JP values" when what I'm arguing for is the preservation of artistic and literary integrity, something that's conducive to a consistent vision that remains true to the original vision. The localization overall does a decent job at remaining true to that, but these types of deliberate and problematic deviations from the 'true' version serve no purpose but to satisfy insecurity with this type of trope not being popular with Western audiences.

I want it fixed/corrected, so that way anyone who chooses to play the game with JP cutscene audio can have an experience that's actually representative of the true product and not revisionism designed to pander to people like you.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

no. i just tend to rewrite stuff but good try on accusing me of being wrong. im frankly not the idiot here. here is what is going on. YOU want to force jp values on the whole world because you are horny to see og haurchefant. Which, as i stated, they could have easily done once the apology was made but again....they didn't do it. the current version is just fine. I am also well aware of the court kitty used in one fate in costa del sol. didn't know a lala one existed but cool must have come and exited my mind because its a npc. Laughably your argument was for lalafell...not miqo or any other race. I literally can point to npcs in varying places that are dressed lewd...doesn't mean thats their intent does it.

Again...THE COMMUNITY SEXUALIZED LALAFELL. like are you genuinely this stupid or just a bored troll? You have no actual argument that you have presented to any of us. just your overall opinion that people seem to not like and you seem to somehow take offense to that and use anything you can find to push your pov. it won't work. give it up. this idea will never happen. this conversation is long since over.

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Again.. you're wrong. The game deliberately sexualizes them, they are adults and the game treats them as such. You blatantly ignoring that fact is not my problem.

Also it's not a matter of opinion. You have no real argument or rebuttal that isn't insults, fallacies, flames, etc. Literally everything in my OP and my subsequent posts have some level of fact to them.

"But he's problematic!!"
"But I like him dis way!!"

Seriously, none of these are valid rebuttals to anything. I want him fixed, and would like SE to properly rectify the issue. I've suggested a way for them to do that. You never even addressed my earlier rebuttal to your assertion that a proper translation of the JP script wouldn't suffice because things can be "lost in translation" when those things can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis without compromising the intent of the original writer.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

No because a lot of people like how he is characterized already compared to a raging horn dog that only cared about you because he wanted to get in your pants?

I dont get why so many people are adamant about Japanese Haurchefaunt. His original personality just wasnt that well written, he was a walking inappropriate archetype that frankly the west wouldnt have found as appealing. They'd either find it mildly amusing or completely turned off, especially to a character we're actually supposed to take seriously.

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See this type of argument makes sense but is addressable.

The character is not defined solely by his desire to get into the WoL's pants, he still does so much for you in the story and is largely the same. His sexual attitudes are there to serve as comedic relief which actually helps put the more serious aspects of the narrative and setting into question, if not just outright humorous. This falls more in-line with mere opinion. I see the value in that, and you would likely as well if you were given that and not this joke. I felt VERY uncomfortable by him being a 'bro' because it felt genuinely out-of-place. It just didn't feel right.

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Originally Posted by Telkira

See this type of argument makes sense but is addressable.

The character is not defined solely by his desire to get into the WoL's pants, he still does so much for you in the story and is largely the same. His sexual attitudes are there to serve as comedic relief which actually helps put the more serious aspects of the narrative and setting into question, if not just outright humorous. This falls more in-line with mere opinion. I see the value in that, and you would likely as well if you were given that and not this joke. I felt VERY uncomfortable by him being a 'bro' because it felt genuinely out-of-place. It just didn't feel right.

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oh wow...you were uncomfortable with him as he is now so you want to force a whole countries values on the rest of the world and make them feel uncomfortable.

lol ok now im done. just had to say this final thing. good luck with your lunacy.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

thinking about it. im done with this particular thread. the dude is obviously horny to have og haurchefant back and uses localization as his excuse then basically craps on westerners who have different values because they don't adhere to japanese values. end of this all. he either really stupid or just a bored troll. im not sure which but what he wants isn't attainable and i don't think he will ever face up to this fact.

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You keep making this about 'JP values' when it's not about that. I'd be just as annoyed if his character was scrapped or changed for something else because, as I said before, I'm arguing for artistic and literary integrity, something that Western audiences pretend to care about until it becomes problematic. I genuinely think that nobody would be bothered as much if they just translated him as what he was in JP. The types of people who take issue with this type of thing tend to not think critically, they normally just eat up whatever is served to them and use communally-accepted conjecture to supplant an otherwise rational or critically-minded thought.
(Pardon my strawman, but I figured I'd throw that out for a change).

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Do you wanna maybe expand on your anime comment from your previous post a little bit? I would love to hear your ideas on that a bit more :)

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The same arguments being made against my position come from the 'subs vs. dubs' style of debate. It's literally the same argument but with a different coat of paint, but also an extrapolation of those who perceive anime tropes as 'problematic' yet continue to consume it. The first episode of 'Goblin Slayer' comes to mind, wherein even after people were warned of the anime's content, Crunchyroll still went ahead and adopted a gratuitous revisionist approach to things, or with the 'Dragon Maid' anime.
I feel like the same people who approved of such changes are the same people who approve of this, and just don't want to admit it. But who am I to make such a presumption? I've only been around these communities for over 10 years... Maybe this man of straw has some meat to him (by that I mean truth).