The Representation We Actually Need

didnt even read the op
but i saw beatrix and was crushed by my sapphic lust for her immediately
yes please to whatever this thread is about

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

So are we cancelling Aveyond for defending the typical strong-man hero archetype that's been a staple of story-writing for thousands of years?

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Wait?
When did we Cancel Aveyond-Dreams?

I was busy working and living my life away from the Forums for a While that I missed the Lore. Someone spill the Tea, when did we Cancel Aveyond-Dreams?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Wait?
When did we Cancel Aveyond-Dreams?

I was busy working and living my life away from the Forums for a While that I missed the Lore. Someone spill the Tea, when did we Cancel Aveyond-Dreams?

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Around the same time they were all permanently banned from the game. I mean that never happened either but good luck convincing them of that.

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Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Around the same time they were all permanently banned from the game. I mean that never happened either but good luck convincing them of that.

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Dang man, I had my Torch, Pitchfork, and Twitter all ready to go.
Ah well, maybe next time.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Like it or not, but the "hero cycle" is essential in story-telling as it promotes a feeling of progress and adventure for the player/reader. There is no more hero cycle in FFXIV, as the WoL (you) has already finished the adventure flawlessly and with zero sign of struggle. You're immaculate and untouchable and everyone revolves around you. The Scions have been flanderized because they serve no greater role than to be comedic side pieces void of any progression or meaning to your story.

https://files.catbox.moe/wzvpq5.webp

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Basically this. I want a story that does more than just hand me victory on top of victory combined with whipping out the Azem crystal every other trial - and I'd like to be surrounded by more traditional archetypes rather than the OCs and comfort characters like G'raha Tia and the myths roe that have come to burrow their way into the game.

Characters that have an arc where they might oppose you and come around later like Beatrix are also great, we could have maybe had that with Urianger and even Zenos if the writers were bold enough but instead we got...Alisae barking in his face like a brat and him turning into a dragon because at that point in the story everything that could have made sense was long gone.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Basically this. I want a story that does more than just hand me victory on top of victory combined with whipping out the Azem crystal every other trial - and I'd like to be surrounded by more traditional archetypes rather than the OCs and comfort characters like G'raha Tia and the myths roe that have come to burrow their way into the game.

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Thats why I like alot of the characters in FFXIV actually. They are not all the usual archetypes you find in allot of JRPGS. For example I like how of the twins its the boy who is the healer and more level headed of the two, and the girl who is more brash and out on the frontlines of battle. Thats not to knock traditional RPG archetypes like the ‘hero’ one described above, such tropes are popular and loved for a reason. In fact despite what I said FFXIV still follow many fantasy ticks (Arguably one of the lores weaknesses is how often they will repeat certain story beats) but not every game, franchise or story must adhere to them. Fiction would be boring if that was the case, even if it means some people like you will not be able to scratch that more pure fantasy itch you have. You cannot blame the game for not pleasing everyone all the time. No game can.

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Characters that have an arc where they might oppose you and come around later like Beatrix are also great, we could have maybe had that with Urianger and even Zenos if the writers were bold enough but instead we got...Alisae barking in his face like a brat and him turning into a dragon because at that point in the story everything that could have made sense was long gone.

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That is one way to add character depth sure, although one could argue it already has happened several times in FFXIV lore. Characters like Gaius, Lolorito (Oh how I wish we could have killed him…) Nero, Fordola, Fourchenault ect where antagonists, or portrayed as such, before becoming allies. Even Estinien could be counted given the Dragoon job quest. Its something they could have done with Zenos I suppose, but that would have had to have been seeded back in Stormblood and there was very little chance of redemption given all his actions by the end of EW. Although one could say he can loose some antagonistic levels depending on what your WoL chooses in the final battle. That I cannot deny.

Also, personally speaking that scene with Alisae was awesome. Finally someone managed to hit Zenos where it hurt.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Basically this. I want a story that does more than just hand me victory on top of victory combined with whipping out the Azem crystal every other trial - and I'd like to be surrounded by more traditional archetypes rather than the OCs and comfort characters like G'raha Tia and the myths roe that have come to burrow their way into the game.

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I wouldn't mind a story without a foregone conclusion.

It is true that every expansion is obviously going to end in success, that's been the norm. And due to that, some story elements will be written to reflect that. Some may feel like excuses to some, or deus-ex-machina to others. This is normal because it's ultimately an anime game, so these tropes will normally happen.
Take Dynamis, for example. That's like "Applied Anime-ism", where you make the fact that the world operates in an anime-esque way something tangible to excuse those moments. Dynamis exists to explain why the Warrior of Light can endure ridiculous odds or why their friends matter more than just very strong personal relationships. It exists to justify why our wins will obviously happen: We're the hero, we will win, and the power of friendship is our power.

Call it what you will, have whatever opinion on it as you will. But the game has established that much. Which means that while it's obviously a tool to be as anime as we can be and a card used to overcome odds as they come, it also means it can now be subverted. Something like how our understanding of Dynamis is limited, or how Dynamis in general isn't something only the Warrior of Light has mastered.

So far, whenever we have failed, it's either retconned (technically; I'm thinking of the Sultana dying plot), or we just need a few levels (us being unable to beat Zenos). It would be nice to actually see dire situations again, without needing to fall into edgy levels of bad. We don't need to blow up characters for the sake of consequences. But if they die as a consequence, it's fine. What I mean by this, if it's a bit awkwardly explained, is that throwing in an expansion where stuff hits the fan for the sake of having something dark isn't ideal either. It should happen organically and with thought. "Bombs explode, everyone dies" isn't good writing. Randomly chopping off characters isn't good writing either. But if a consequence has to happen, then it should be natural, and if such a consequence is a death, then it should be justified and understandable. Not everyone wants a super gritty story that clashes with the rest of the game either.

So... yeah, bring on dire straits and situations where the Warrior of Light cannot actually win and it leads to something major happening, rather than it being played off as "better luck next time" or "dw, they were just minor, walk it off". They have ample opportunity to do so, provided it's done well and with a good structure.

As for your assessment of G'raha and the femroe in the Secrets of the Realm thing... Eh, your opinion. But we shouldn't try to axe people just because we don't like them. We should at least give them the chance of having more before picking up the axe :|

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

the femroe in the Secrets of the Realm thing... Eh, your opinion. But we shouldn't try to axe people just because we don't like them. We should at least give them the chance of having more before picking up the axe :|

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Do not be speaking the disrespect at the imperial highness princess Svelte Lana.

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Originally Posted by Graeham

Do not be speaking the disrespect at the imperial highness princess Svelte Lana.

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https://media.tenor.com/SjBbktYZASgA...-squinting.gif

Ppl want to complain about "lack of representation"?

Why no heroes like person in this vid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0bC__I-Lqs