Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

IMO, any fight that has an enrage should have a damage meter enabled in that fight.

Enrages occur when you don't deal enough damage in X amount of time. Damage is therefore important in those scenarios and should be viewable.

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This is honestly where Yoshi's design philosophy contradicts itself. The devs have created the need for a tool that they're not allowing.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

IMO, any fight that has an enrage should have a damage meter enabled in that fight.

Enrages occur when you don't deal enough damage in X amount of time. Damage is therefore important in those scenarios and should be viewable.

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In my experience, most groups don't even reach enrage. They just fail the mechanics, and are forced to reset more often than not until the timer of the duty runs out. DPS meters aren't going to do anything to help those groups.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

This topic always goes the same way.

"Dps meters will create toxicity!"
"But toxic behavior is against ToS?"
"People will bully others!"
"But they can't, it's against ToS..."
"Statics will exclude everyone!"
"But everyone who raids uses fflogs anyway, lots of causal statics exist and it's been fine?"
"Toxicity!"
"But...?"
"Toxicity!!!!"

There's no argument here and logic has been presented a million times. The simple fact is underperforming players don't want their performance to be visible. Even if no one bullies them, they hate that others are doing better or being presented with proof they're holding a group back by not trying or caring. So they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend numbers don't exist. And that's the environment SE wants to foster, because in their eyes those players are potential customers and they can just push the better players to carry them.

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No, many of us who are against parsers in game or open parsing arent hard against parsing all the time and have probably added up our battle logs ourselves from time to time to see how we perform or which DPS we might want to use in certain content.

What we dont want is for a situation where gamer(tm) types are giving sprouts and people who are cutting their teeth at harder content shit over their parses in ARR/HW/SB/ShB content. Or rolling into casual fun runs and lambasting people. Which is exactly what would happen.

If you regularly runs blinds it can be a nighrmare not to have some idiot roll into the group gabbling on about the guide and wondering why people havent got a walkthrough open on another screen, or enter a blind prog and are surprised to learn that you actually have to set aside an hour or two to actually prog the damned thing.

Imagine giving those people an in-game parser? It would be a right pain in the arse.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

There's no argument here and logic has been presented a million times. The simple fact is underperforming players don't want their performance to be visible. Even if no one bullies them, they hate that others are doing better or being presented with proof they're holding a group back by not trying or caring. So they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend numbers don't exist. And that's the environment SE wants to foster, because in their eyes those players are potential customers and they can just push the better players to carry them.

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The issue is a little more nuanced than that.
I will start by saying I think that parsers are an invaluable tool in the right hands. With that said:

What percentage of the player-base do you think can be trusted to understand and responsibly interpret the data a parser gives then?

Do you think that access to metrics that inherently appear hierarchical, which the majority of players are not equipped to contextualize, will lead to good decision making and healthy interactions?

Do you feel that inexperienced/inconsistent players feeling intense pressure to deal high damage, (in excess of the fight requirement), will make them play better and secure clears quickly and consistently?

Do you think that it's healthy that Damage Parses have become elevated as the most important indicator of player skill among much of the existing community that uses FFLogs?


And out of selfish curiosity; Of those you listed above, which one do you think my motivation for not liking the increasingly widespread use of parsers is?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Piling on people because of bad performance is already considered harassment. Those rules already exist.

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Yes. That is what I said.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Are you that shocked?
Remember, smoking bad but /toast and drinking good!

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Remember, it's the same company that says they have integrity in their character models/game art and don't want to cause clipping issues, and then still cause clipping issues literally everywhere, but when it comes to things like ears of multiple races "oh lordy lordy we can't have them clip through the hats!"

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

No, many of us who are against parsers in game or open parsing arent hard against parsing all the time and have probably added up our battle logs ourselves from time to time to see how we perform or which DPS we might want to use in certain content.

What we dont want is for a situation where gamer(tm) types are giving sprouts and people who are cutting their teeth at harder content shit over their parses in ARR/HW/SB/ShB content. Or rolling into casual fun runs and lambasting people. Which is exactly what would happen.

If you regularly runs blinds it can be a nighrmare not to have some idiot roll into the group gabbling on about the guide and wondering why people havent got a walkthrough open on another screen, or enter a blind prog and are surprised to learn that you actually have to set aside an hour or two to actually prog the damned thing.

Imagine giving those people an in-game parser? It would be a right pain in the arse.

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Umm... you're not forced to play with those people when they rear their ugly little heads. If someone actually came into your group and did that, despite the TOS, then 1. that's a VERY easy kick and 2. a VERY easy report. You literally have the tools to solve issues like that yourself, make use of them. It boggles my mind how anti-kick and anti-report people in this game are.

I know the OP was just joking, but official damage meters unironically would improve the game. It's no secret that the majority of the playerbase is pretty awful. Give 'em something to compare numbers with and maybe we'll see some improvement. There's already countless rules preventing you from getting harassed which was the whole reason SE didn't want you to use it in the first place. Even makes things better for the console players who are just stuck with trying to stare at animations to find out who's single targeting during pulls of 6+

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Originally Posted by Restonance

I know the OP was just joking, but official damage meters unironically would improve the game. It's no secret that the majority of the playerbase is pretty awful. Give 'em something to compare numbers with and maybe we'll see some improvement. There's already countless rules preventing you from getting harassed which was the whole reason SE didn't want you to use it in the first place. Even makes things better for the console players who are just stuck with trying to stare at animations to find out who's single targeting during pulls of 6+

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You know even with ToS, that still didnt stop people in PF barring players due to their numbers or performance anyway. At least from the posts Ive seen on twitter, so just making it official will just validate a lot of the scummy behavior of caring more about top tier damage numbers than just clearing a fight. Itll effectively kill the raid scene even more

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You know even with ToS, that still didnt stop people in PF barring players due to their numbers or performance anyway. At least from the posts Ive seen on twitter, so just making it official will just validate a lot of the scummy behavior of caring more about top tier damage numbers than just clearing a fight. Itll effectively kill the raid scene even more

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The barred players often have logs that are astronomical terrible and often their clears came because the group carried them. Clearing the fight itself is not a great metric to go by. We had an FC mate that was dead for roughly 28% of a fight we cleared it but one day he came crying in discord cause we uploaded the fight he had issues getting into PF groups.

It is not scummy behavior to not want to carry someone that has a history of getting carried.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You know even with ToS, that still didnt stop people in PF barring players due to their numbers or performance anyway. At least from the posts Ive seen on twitter, so just making it official will just validate a lot of the scummy behavior of caring more about top tier damage numbers than just clearing a fight. Itll effectively kill the raid scene even more

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I would agree it's obnoxious when it's practiced in DF groups, but PF? Why? People shouldn't force themselves to join that PF if they couldn't live up to that expectation. How is it 'scummy' to wanting to choose who to play with in PF? Folks barring one another in PF already happens to some extent: iLv.

Id like that just to better myself, not for commendations