I think they started in mid Shadowbringers, so I wouldn't really be concerned with whatever opinion they have on XIV changes over the years. They're basically a troll at this point. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kaurhz
Why is diadem a duty?
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12-14-2022, 07:45 AMR041
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12-14-2022, 07:52 AMJojoyaOr maybe after a decade of play, you've had your fill and are ready for a new adventure on a new world.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Game developers streamlining their systems and content is a response to how players are engaging with content. You may like something. I may even like it as well. But if 85% of the player base doesn't like it, they're probably not going to continue developing in that style for the 15% who did. There will always be some outliers when it comes to the response in participation numbers because it helps generate publicity for the game (like Ultimate) or because it's building off a system already in place intended for the general player base (Criterion being built off Variant) and doesn't require a substantial amount of extra effort on the part of the team that builds the world assets, which is by far the biggest time sink in development.
As has been brought up by a YouTube content creator, and repeated here and in many other gaming forums, player demand for efficiency has taken a lot of the fun out of games. They're no longer looking for adventure but rather the most efficient ways to get their rewards.
And so game developers change the way they design their games to match how players actually engage with the content instead of how players say they want to engage with the content because the latter leads to more complaints. Players say they want branching dungeons but the moment they step foot into the instance with a random group, it's take the most efficient path to get the reward and leave. What do the game designers do? Remove the branching paths that would end up ignored because that cuts the time needed to create the dungeon in half.
Players want their jobs to be right at the top of numbers performance instead of filling niche roles that don't have that performance but still provide important utility. Higher numbers = higher efficiency in their heads. So developers have to start homogenizing jobs so numbers are decently balanced across them. There's no room for creative utility because players will just complain about how their job underperforms compared to the rest. Things like rDPS at FFLogs don't really help because the player's performance then becomes dependent on how well the rest of the party is making use of the utility provided.
It's not really a problem if you're working with a static where you're trying to achieve continued success as a consistent group, you're all going to look out for each other. But if you're pugging like the majority of the player base does, it's going to hurt you because of the underlying Every Man for Himself mentality.
One could say it's on game developers to not cater to efficiency and force players to accept other types of systems but that's going to reduce the number of players they get and in the end, it's a business. If X amount of effort produces Y revenue using a method that promotes adventure and creativity at the loss of player efficiency but that same X effort will produce 3Y revenue if they focus on efficiency, what do you think the develop is going to choose (especially if it's a large multi-national corporation that has an obligation to its shareholders to produce profits)? They're going to create the 3Y revenue stream.
Do I wish some content in the game was designed differently? Sure. I'm not obsessed with numbers and efficiency. But I understand why game design has gone the path it has and so I make the best of what is available. If I find I can't enjoy it, then I move on and try other games until I find one where I'm enjoying myself again.
A question for those players who think striving for efficiency is fun: has it genuinely made you happy or do you feel like there's something still missing? -
12-14-2022, 07:58 AMR041I don't know why you people keep saying that - Again, I'm playing other games as well. I'm mostly just actively subbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
They've designed their game so into efficiency that content is no longer actively engaging and it stifles curiosity and failure. You see all the players around us? It's the lowest pop we've had in 2 years and it's getting even lower until January. We'll see what happens and if it can retain a playerbase after that.
But I'm not concerned with you trying to keep me engaged, people should be concerned about keeping the majority engaged, and I don't believe that's been successful. -
12-14-2022, 08:12 AMJojoyaI keep saying it because you're doggedly hanging on here despite your dissatisfaction. Even if you're just posting in the forums, you're clinging to something that's bringing you down.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Again, they're designing the game into efficiency because that's how players engage with the game. Most of us are living in a materialistic society where people are valued more by what they have than what they do. As a result, players are on a quest to get more more more rather than enjoy what they're doing. If they would shed their materialism and focus on their experience over their reward, maybe game developers would have incentive to change how they design content.
Why are you worried about the size of the player base compared to 2 years ago? That was about 4 times what it was when I began playing just before Heavensward's launch. If the player base back then was large enough to make the game worth playing, then it's certainly still worth playing now.
You too seem to have an obsession with numbers that really don't mean much.
SE doesn't need to keep the majority engaged 100% of the time. That's Acti-Blizz thinking. They just need to keep the majority engaged enough that they'll return when the next expansion is released, just as WoW is currently getting a lot of returning players to see what Dragonflight is like. -
12-14-2022, 08:31 AMR041You're right, it's a dumpster fire and I'm just here for the warmth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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12-14-2022, 08:45 AMIkaraGreydancerI hear the "there's nothing to do" alot from you guys. My question is do you have every item possible to get in this game? I'm talking glam, mounts, armour, weapons, titles, minions, triad cards etc. If the answer is no then objectively you're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Also someone starting mid ShB can still have looked at changes over the years and talk about them. That logic is as dumb as when folks say someone has less subscribers on YT so their opinion doesn't matter. -
12-14-2022, 09:03 AMR041No, I don't mean their opinion doesn't actually matter - But when they're arguing and clearly not showing an understanding of the changes that have occurred as we've experienced them over the past 10 years, they don't have the same perspective of HOW we've evolved and where we've been heading. So an opinion of "Yeah but nobody actually liked that content" doesn't really seem honest when they never actually did it when it was live. So it's more assumed to the genre as a whole and not an experience of XIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
Also no, Shadowbringers and Endwalker were very mellow to me, I've already busted my ass getting all classes to cap every expac since ARR, and it wouldn't be the same as me telling you to level all classes, and gather all mounts today as it did even 2 years ago. So that doesn't even equate here. There's nothing to do because that base content is no longer engaging as it's been evolved to a more streamlined version of itself. I no longer feel the need to level classes that all feel the same and have boring rotations, while spamming dungeons where nobody needs to talk or strategize. It's also been nearly impossible to actually queue for the things I enjoy like the Nier series.
Every year more Triple Triad cards come out, but because I don't update my Card List every minor patch since 2.51, then I must not have experienced Triple Triad and I haven't done everything! - No, it's all more of the same with a difference skin and everything is systematically linear now. Like a card comes out and I go "Wow, I finally have content to do! Thank Yoshi-P!" I do love TT though. -
12-14-2022, 09:20 AMIkaraGreydancerThat's a roundabout way to say I'm correct. There IS stuff to do you just don't feel like doing it. There ain't a game out there that isn't repetitive. That's the nature of any game really. It's how you value said repetition that makes the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by R041
Maybe the game isn't for you with how the devs prefer to run it. What they're doing works and a big selling point for the game often spoke on is how people don't have to deal with FOMO and their time is always respected.
If you want a game that's more grind we have the likes of Black Desert around now. Maybe try Lost Ark or something. There's other avenues -
12-14-2022, 09:24 AMKaurhzThe logic of your opening statement is just as dumb as the statement you're attempting to call out. Give it a rest. Someone not having completed all content does not preclude them from having an opinion on what the game has or does not have, equally this does not make any opinion on the matter invalid.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
The problem with this statement is that it not only ignores many of the issues that do plague certain areas of content but equally essentially advocates for... Something to do for the sake of something to do, regardless of the substance of actual content. When people refer to 'nothing to do' -- They are not meaning literally "nothing to do", they are making a reference to a good bulk of the content in the game essentially being one-off content with little in terms of actual replay value that makes obtaining or working towards a goal as something not really meaningful, and the game could do with having more meaningful.
Do you know what is cool? That Palace of the Dead, each run feels like a different experience albeit with the same aesthetic, all whilst giving the player a challenge to rise to, each class making you use a different tactic, that often requires fairly creative methods, making each class a unique experience in itself. Do You know what isn't? Farming gatherers boon 20,000 times just for a title, doing the same cycle every. single. time. Want to know what else isn't cool? Spending obscene amounts of time farming 3,000 A-Ranks and 2,000 S-Ranks. Granted, this is relative, but regardless of your own personal feelings, there is a different engagement factor between them -- and it isn't exactly in equal amounts. -
12-14-2022, 09:33 AMR041Sure, didn't say you were wrong. I've already responded to a similar post exactly the same way only last page, you just insist on badgering me about it without understanding the why. Continuing to throw a list at me doesn't mean the content is good, considering most of it is roughly 4-6 years old to begin with. Palace of the Dead is nearly 7 years old, and basically unchanged except for the terrible sync. Why is POTD ever mentioned in lists like these knowing it's so old and withered? You all act like we didn't run that for a year straight when it came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer
So again these things being brought up by players that have only joined at the tail end of Shadowbringers seem a bit dishonest typically with their feast of 300 hours of MSQ and side content. I'm glad you all see a plethora of fun things to do, I really do. But it's just like if I went to WoW and told them to stop complaining because they have all of BfA and Torghast to do, oh also did you catch all the pokemans battle pets? Oh you didn't? Then you still have content to do!
They teased Variant and Harvest Moon.. *Cough* Island Sanctuary as if they'd compete with Bozja and Eureka levels of activity. Both dead after 3 days each.
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Originally Posted by R041