SAM and SMN is doing too much damage and should be nerfed.

Funny joke: some jobs have complicated rotations. But it is harder to min-max SMN than playing these jobs' basic rotation. So SMN is so hard to play weep weep.

Funniest logic 2022.




Do you know you need to adjust your simple af rotation based on the fight? There are a lot of things to consider. It is not simple at all.
I mean, yeah, which job doesn't tho?

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Originally Posted by SleepyCococat

I don't understand why ppl are even arguing about whether SMN is simple or not.

Doesn't it make you look kinda stupid if you insist that you feel SMN is difficult to play?

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Every job is easy until you hit the optimization. Every job has difficulties in optimization, MNK has some cursed FPS related optimization. But no one needs to hit perfection.
Let's be real, if we rated every job difficulty from 1 to 100 score (HW being 100), BLM would score 20 and everything else would be below that.

During HW you had to weave a ridiculous amount of buss and missing positionals would mean no extra effect such as dot/buffs.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Lul, the 6.0 opener. You really absolutely know nothing and you'd be a really bad Summoner not because the job is bad but because you don't know any better.

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OMG. I don't even know they made it even simpler in 6.1. Haven't touched it since 6.0.

Just tried it out. Definitely should make Radiant Aegis cast by player so it is even more braindead.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Every job is easy until you hit the optimization. Every job has difficulties in optimization, MNK has some cursed FPS related optimization. But no one needs to hit perfection.
Let's be real, if we rated every job difficulty from 1 to 100 score (HW being 100), BLM would score 20 and everything else would be below that.

During HW you had to weave a ridiculous amount of buss and missing positionals would mean no extra effect such as dot/buffs.

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True that.

I mean. If someone told me he feels DRG or BLM is quite complicated. I would say you can master it with some practice.
If someone told me he feels SMN is complicated. Ummm, really?

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

The fact you don't even know Searing Light can be used inside of Bahamut/Phoenix shows you have no knowledge and your opinion is invalid.

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Sorry MB, I haven't touched it since 6.0. I take back my opinion because it is apparently even simpler than I remembered. :(

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Originally Posted by SleepyCococat

I don't understand why ppl are even arguing about whether SMN is simple or not.

Doesn't it make you look kinda stupid if you insist that you feel SMN is difficult to play?

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It is not. Your problem is to insist that any other job is more difficult. They are not. Maybe an amateur that doesn't play the job will find it difficult to play but anyone who is doing savage raid and is serious enough about a role or job have enough time and knowledge to make the job they play brain dead.

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Originally Posted by SleepyCococat

Funny joke: some jobs have complicated rotations. But it is harder to min-max SMN than playing these jobs' basic rotation. So SMN is so hard to play weep weep.

Funniest logic 2022.

Do you know you need to adjust your simple af rotation based on the fight? There are a lot of things to consider. It is not simple at all.
I mean, yeah, which job doesn't tho?

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And here' why you think you're smart but you're not.

Summoner can't be easy to optimize because there is no optimization on Summoner. The rotation is a rigid 2 minutes that you always follow. The only time you could delay Bahamut/Phoenix would be downtime in between a 1 minute burst window. That has yet to happen. There's not a situation where the boss goes invuln at 1:30 of the fight for 10 seconds and you need to delays the 2 minutes burst window by 10 seconds :)

If there is nothing you can do about optimization, you can't say it's easy to do it because you don't.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Those are strong words my man.

My group is currently holding 6 minute buffs on P7S which is why I go RDM on this fight over SMN. Doing an analysis, I noticed SMN is still really stronk and way over RDM unlike p8s second boss.

https://xivanalysis.com/fflogs/2yhJV...pe=damage-done Clear with a group that don't hold buffs with a SMN in it. 9m22s clear time.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/Zn8LT...pe=damage-done Clear with a BLM they do hold buffs and clear at 9m16s.

Summary; the entire group lose 1-2 GCD by not holding their buffs for the Summoner. That's the only reason they'd lose on those buffs because it cost them more to have the one summoner desync on the last buff window. You were saying Summoner is the easiest to optimize? Having an entire party adjust for Summoner doesn't sounds easy

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Here's my own quote. The group sacced 1-2 GCDs for the Summoner. The entire group on that log found out it was higher group rDPS to lose these GCDs than have their summoner desync. This is where the "difficulty" comes with Summoner. It's not difficult for the Summoner, they don't do anything. But they make it difficult to everybody else because they have to adjust for the Summoner. You either work around Summoner or you play another Caster. So stop spitting lies that Summoner is "easy" to optimize. There is no optimization meaning it isn't difficult or easy, the concept don't exist. This is also something nobody asked for when they revamped Summoner so stop accusing players to want to play an easy job. I swapped from RDM to SMN not because I wanted more simple but because I went with what was best for P8S during prog.

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Originally Posted by SleepyCococat

OMG. I don't even know they made it even simpler in 6.1. Haven't touched it since 6.0.

Just tried it out. Definitely should make Radiant Aegis cast by player so it is even more braindead.

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This is also why and I'm putting it the nicest way I can by saying your point of view is just an opinion. You lack proper experience and knowledge to actually know what you're talking about. An opinion is biased and without anything to back you, your voice doesn't have anything to hold.

How about you actually let people who know what they're talking about talk and you just watch? Unless you're willing to suddenly show that you're a main Summoner and you can provide anything that proves that Summoner deserves a DPS nerf, you'll be ignored.

Protip~ make 1 post, not 4 when you read forums.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Protip~ make 1 post, not 4 when you read forums.

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No:p:p:p:p

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

If there is nothing you can do about optimization, you can't say it's easy to do it because you don't.

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Didn't say that. What I said is that Min-maxing is of course not easy for any job. Now we are talking about a job having a braindead rotation and you are saying"Hmm not actually, there are a lot of shenanigans about this job you can do to gain 100 potencies". "You need to think about whether or not you use a Ruin 3 to pull", of fucking course, who doesn't. Don't try to flaunt by saying "you need to consider so much if you want to optimize your damage and have a good parse". Every job needs to. This reminds me of those Pheonix rotators in 5.0. "Hmm, you need to rotate Pheonix optimally to gain maximum damage" This does not change the fact that SMN has the simplest rotation in the game. Hell, I even think playing gunbreaker takes more brainpower. Saying SMN has a more complex beginner than DRG is next-level copium.

P.S. Did you mean that only SMN mains can have a say on whether SMN should be nerfed? How about we all shut up and only let SMN mains speak then SE will buff it. I don't think you need to play all jobs to know which job is the simplest lmao.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

Protip~ make 1 post, not 4 when you read forums.

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BTW, I will say this. This was intended as a troll post(as you can tell from a reply I made like 5 days ago). I was expecting people to discuss whether devs really nerf damage by difficulty(or they are just full of shit). Now we are discussing whether SMN is difficult to play or not. Never thought this would be the way to feed the post.

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Originally Posted by SleepyCococat

BTW, I will say this. This was intended as a troll post(as you can tell from a reply I made like 5 days ago). I was expecting people to discuss whether devs really nerf damage by difficulty. Now we are discussing whether SMN is difficult to play or not. Never thought this would be the way to feed the post.

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So it never occurred to you by making a thread that said a job doing 8% to 10% less DPS than the top 5 jobs should get a damage nerf would get people saying you're wrong? You are aware the devs do read forums to an extend and may consider your trolling. r/ShitpostXIV exists for that my dude.

Also, there's a significant amount of players who used to like and enjoy the complexity of Summoner and this was taken from them without much to say. Telling everyone that you're job the dev team decided to oversimplified to the point optimization is impossible and then demand they lower DPS based from complexity is really just a giant slap in the face.

Btw, I don't ever recall saying that Summoner was difficult to play. I play it because it's better than RDM, I just play what's more useful to my team.

Here's the deal and here's why you're bringing this the wrong way. In a casual point of view what's easier to play as a caster DPS? SMN yeah, of course. What's easier to play as a tank, WAR obviously. Also, casuals don't really care about complexity, they are playing the job they like to associate the most. They couldn't careless if it's easy or not. But when you come in the OF, you've showed and made the extra step that you care more than your average casual player. If a player comes and discuss balance and saying something is wrong; to the very minimal they are savage raiders. Savage players to the very least have basic knowledge on their main job to make it super comfy and easy to play. That's regardless if it's SMN or DRG. DRG is absolutely easy to play. Some players may take a few weeks to play at a good enough level a job, I personally learned RDM after I joined my group with no RDM experience. I learned to raid with Monk the same day I got it to 70 in SB. I don't think everyone can do that and it would be folly to assume that unless you're doing hardcore prog.

This isn't just about SMN. Caster mains are stuck between a rock, a stone and a pebble. You have RDM doing no damage at all and severely underperforms. You have SMN who does a bit better than RDM but most people hate to play because it's too simple and impossible to optimize. You have BLM who is really only good if the entire party let you do no mechanic and still struggles to come ahead of fights. Kindly, don't make posts saying to nerf DPS of a job that's already covered in dirt.