the mod/addon is getting out of hand and is spreading to other platforms JUST STOP!!

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Originally Posted by Zaene

Many people in this thread(forum) are engaging in the logical fallacy referred to as the overgeneralization (also known as the hasty generalization)fallacy.
An example of this fallacy is as follows: Me Mum ain't want me to eat snacks before dinner, well then she must not want me to eat at all.
It's often used as willful ignorance of a larger concept(perhaps one many people would understand if they wanted/needed to). There is an argument to be made for a difference of impact of various add-ons, however, I put forth that once an add-on was made that could fundamentally modify animations, the well was poisoned beyond recovery.

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So you don't know what XIVA does and doesn't do, and you are simply saying "well, it can possibly do X therefore Y can possibly happen?"

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

I question whether or not the people who are against such tools have had an actual look at what the tools do, versus just simply hearing thirdhand off of someone who heard it from someone else who heard from someone who glanced at a reddit thread about it once.

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I once again cede ground to those who seem to know more than I do about these concepts. However, I ask this question of all of you. Does the use of this add-on provide an advantage that for example, my friend living in South America can not get on his PS4? Do you think that is fair? Do you think that he would have a better or worse time in the game changing to PC and using these programs? Should he have to to clear the content he desires to?

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Originally Posted by Zaene

I once again cede ground to those who seem to know more than I do about these concepts. However, I ask this question of all of you. Does the use of this add-on provide an advantage that for example, my friend living in South America can not get on his PS4? Do you think that is fair? Do you think that he would have a better or worse time in the game changing to PC and using these programs? Should he have to to clear the content he desires to?

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Maybe blame SE for not implementing these basic QoL and fixes instead of people using addons lol

that's convoluting tl;dr?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zaene

Many people in this thread(forum) are engaging in the logical fallacy referred to as the overgeneralization (also known as the hasty generalization)fallacy.
An example of this fallacy is as follows: Me Mum ain't want me to eat snacks before dinner, well then she must not want me to eat at all.
It's often used as willful ignorance of a larger concept(perhaps one many people would understand if they wanted/needed to). There is an argument to be made for a difference of impact of various add-ons, however, I put forth that once an add-on was made that could fundamentally modify animations, the well was poisoned beyond recovery.

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Overgeneralization is actually the issue people are having with the zero tolerance approach to addons, from the devs and from some of the community. Going on witch hunts against streamers who use purely cosmetic mods IS an issue and it IS harassment even if folks want to excuse it because of SE's rules. Its unnecessary and toxic and is part of the thing people talk about regarding this game's community having a "toxic positivity" problem where unless you are wholly ok with every aspect of the game you are a problem. At the end of the day add-ons don't hurt anyone, and thats the most important point to make. If someone is using speed hacks they are easy to find, report and ban. Why? Because its obvious in the game when that is happening. Anything that you can't see doesn't impact you or your in game experience.

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Originally Posted by Zaene

I once again cede ground to those who seem to know more than I do about these concepts. However, I ask this question of all of you. Does the use of this add-on provide an advantage that for example, my friend living in South America can not get on his PS4? Do you think that is fair? Do you think that he would have a better or worse time in the game changing to PC and using these programs? Should he have to to clear the content he desires to?

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There actually is something that helps with console players too on that front. Requires more setup but it is possible.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I've never seen any PF ever require an addon. And you know why? Because anyone with a fraction of a braincell knows it's a one way trip to ban town. Literally a non-problem made up to scare people.

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I'd like to point to my previous post wherein I say "even without saying so" because as you mentioned, mentioning the no-no things gets you sent to no-no land. That is what is even MORE insidious. Because you can't talk about them, it because an invisible problem.

A completely innocent person, trying their best to complete content joins a group where everyone is using the add-on, they can't talk about them, but they see that the person doesn't have the add-on, thus is at a disadvantage and they are robbed of the ability to try their best to clear the content. A situation where what you don't know does hurt you.

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Originally Posted by Zaene

I once again cede ground to those who seem to know more than I do about these concepts. However, I ask this question of all of you. Does the use of this add-on provide an advantage that for example, (1) my friend living in South America can not get on his PS4? (2)Do you think that is fair? (3)Do you think that he would have a better or worse time in the game changing to PC and using these programs? (4)Should he have to to clear the content he desires to?

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1. Depending on his location, yes or no - that yes being with major caveats. There are people in South America who have better ping than I do, and that is the "advantage" that XIVA provides - simulating better ping by reducing the animation locks by a set value that cannot be changed unless one is extremely determined and goes against the wishes of the developer of the tool. Your friend can utilize a VPN to gain similar effects to their gameplay.

2. It absolutely is not fair, just like how it is absolutely not fair that those of us who live in states such as New York or New Jersey experience the same ping to NA servers as we do to EU servers. XIVA provides something that should already be ingame natively - and it proves that it's something within the games capabilities to do and provide for users. Your skill should not depend on where you live or whether or not you can have access to a VPN or XIVA.

3. Some of the best players in my group play best on the PS4. I play my best with an MMO mouse. If your friend plays well on PC, they play well on PC. If they play well on the PS4, they play well on the PS4. Addons cannot force you to play well - see the mass amounts of people who utilize addons and still play like hot garbage. Addons are not a replacement for skill, the majority of them merely do what the game should already be doing.

4. He should not, and does not have to. And if anyone tells him that he needs to, then he knows to avoid them because they likely are hot garbage. This is the mindset of most who use addons. No one will force you to use an addon, you do not need an addon to play the game at high tiers, and those who do use addons typically only use them to supplement the game with features that should already be in the game.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

4. He should not, and does not have to. And if anyone tells him that he needs to, then he knows to avoid them because they likely are hot garbage. This is the mindset of most who use addons. No one will force you to use an addon, you do not need an addon to play the game at high tiers, and those who do use addons typically only use them to supplement the game with features that should already be in the game.

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And the craziest thing about this is Yoshi P talked in his letter about taking some of the features from add ons and adding them to the game. Yet they're banning people for using those add ons that they are going to make a part of the core experience.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

1. Depending on his location, yes or no - that yes being with major caveats. There are people in South America who have better ping than I do, and that is the "advantage" that XIVA provides - simulating better ping by reducing the animation locks by a set value that cannot be changed unless one is extremely determined and goes against the wishes of the developer of the tool. Your friend can utilize a VPN to gain similar effects to their gameplay.

2. It absolutely is not fair, just like how it is absolutely not fair that those of us who live in states such as New York or New Jersey experience the same ping to NA servers as we do to EU servers. XIVA provides something that should already be ingame natively - and it proves that it's something within the games capabilities to do and provide for users. Your skill should not depend on where you live or whether or not you can have access to a VPN or XIVA.

3. Some of the best players in my group play best on the PS4. I play my best with an MMO mouse. If your friend plays well on PC, they play well on PC. If they play well on the PS4, they play well on the PS4. Addons cannot force you to play well - see the mass amounts of people who utilize addons and still play like hot garbage. Addons are not a replacement for skill, the majority of them merely do what the game should already be doing.

4. He should not, and does not have to. And if anyone tells him that he needs to, then he knows to avoid them because they likely are hot garbage. This is the mindset of most who use addons. No one will force you to use an addon, you do not need an addon to play the game at high tiers, and those who do use addons typically only use them to supplement the game with features that should already be in the game.

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I agree with the vast majority of this. I too hope that SE can implement a systemic change to their game that can quash the need to use add-ons. I'm not very optimistic however. In the meantime, I wonder how the game will evolve. I honestly don't want a situation to arise where there is a large gulf between people who have add-ons which (may) provide advantages the average player doesn't have and other folks.