SAM players are quitting

Leaving SAM as is now if Kaiten is to be removed then SAM must be buffed across the board to make up for the damage you lost. Kaiten was half the job in managing your gauge and was the most engaging part of the job. As of now your gauge is primarily relegated to Shinten spam so you don't overcap. It is not as rewarding and puts SAM in the boring but effective camp.

If button bloat was their concern they could have easily removed the CD on Guren and Senei and made Guren and Senei upgrades to Kyuten and Shinten respectively. And did something with Shoha I and II. Namikiri is just a beefcake OG Goken. Which is a cone while Goken is a circle. Bad change. Less skill intensive and puts you in the middle of every AoE.

I understand a part of this change is to make the game more accessible but it also seems like a way to lure more players into plays the Flavor of the Expansion job in Reaper.

Autocrits also put them in Warrior territory for gearing. The autocrits wouldn't be so terrible if you could still hit those big 50k-100k one hit wonder numbers but shocker you can't anymore.

Adding insult to injury Kaiten still exists as a buff in PvP they added specifically for 6.1.

And given Kaiten's removal I'm not really seeing the purpose of having Hagakure either since Kenki management becomes a joke.

I wouldn't expect big changes for a while.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

MNK had an entire rework that changed entirely how they play

Did you hear MNKs threatening to quit?

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Veteran MNK players have been dealing with how SE handles their job for almost a decade, this is nothing new to them.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Nah I just think SAM think a little too much of themselves and it's why they're making a massive mountain out of a molehill.

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If removing all resource management, removing choice from how to spend resources, and removing the importance of choice from when to spend resources is a molehill to you, sure.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

MNK had an entire rework that changed entirely how they play

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Not really - monk before and after 6.0 is arguably less different than samurai before and after 6.1. The vast majority of monk gameplay is exactly the same - they just had a couple OGCDs removed and turned into Blitz that you only get to use once every 40s. Conversely, samurai's core rotation AND resource got simplified.

That said, that's another extremely important difference between the two - monk gained complexity - samurai lost complexity. You're bashing samurai for not being complex while simultaneously bashing people for lamenting the loss of what little complexity it had.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Did you hear MNKs threatening to quit? Why no, no you did not

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Here's a thought: maybe they liked their changes. If we liked our changes you probably wouldn't be seeing samurai talking about quitting either, but we don't like our changes.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

if threatening to quit to get your own way is how it's gonna be, maybe go because every time they do something you do not like

We will get a thread like this and that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

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The community is also better off without people who rejoice at bad changes out of spite.

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Originally Posted by Karious

You must be fun at parties. Now go tell the massive amount of Japanese DPS players complaining the same thing and see how far you get. (hint: not very far). Antagonizing people doesn't do a good job of getting your opinion across.

Fun that you get to decide what is good "the community".

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There are ways to Construct criticism.

Creating threads screaming "I will uninstall if you don't give me what I want", is not it.

It's making a demand with a threat.

Did ASTs do that when they reworked cards in ShB?

No, they made a constructive thread about it and discussed points for and against.

They didn't stomp their feet and get huffy, they gave feedback and got buffed to compensate the suite of changes.

This is not Battlenet, please stop behaving like the Rogue class there.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

There are ways to Construct criticism.

Creating threads screaming "I will uninstall if you don't give me what I want", is not it.

It's making a demand with a threat.

Did ASTs do that when they reworked cards in ShB?

No, they made a constructive thread about it and discussed points for and against.

They didn't stomp their feet and get huffy, they gave feedback and got buffed to compensate the suite of changes.

This is not Battlenet, please stop behaving like the Rogue class there.

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We've already reiterated every possible fix and asked for rollbacks hundreds of times. They're not going to do anything until 6.2 at the least. I'm not going to stop posting and staying visible over this to let SE think people accept the changes. Everyone has been constructive for the most part, it's people like you coming into these threads and concern trolling or pretending to know what's best for people who actively play a class, who stir up trouble.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

... that speaks volumes of the kinds of players the job attracts and quite frankly, community is better off without that.

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Really? 'The kinds of players the job attracts...?' Just - no words. Who THINKS like this? Those who play several classes must be really muddled, huh?

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

There are ways to Construct criticism.

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And we thank you for your demonstration of how not to do so.

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Originally Posted by YukiB

And we thank you for your demonstration of how not to do so.

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Not gonna lie, that got a chuckle out of me :D

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Originally Posted by YukiB

And we thank you for your demonstration of how not to do so.

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I admit, it never occurred to me to accuse people of being psychologically corrupt because they play a certain class. Just pondering what this may mean for the Reaper! (meaning, is some such person out there thinking, "OH, you play reaper! Clearly, you have a goat's heart in your basement...")

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Originally Posted by Naoki34

Oh no, not at all, nerfed or cheated, I continue to main SAM.

And, I don't spend my time complaining that the devs did this or that, I adapt. Since when is it a convention to complain about the slightest change?

I'm a kendoka IRL, I'm not going to change my martial arts because it's getting lame.

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Thing is, as you probably now know, you can't like these changes or simply be indifferent to them. You have to hate or dislike em or you'll upset the hardcore Sam fanbase.
Also you must be new around here as there's complaints about any and everything on the official forums. Want a better time go anywhere else (inb4 folks crap on those for me bringing it up).
I understand the notion of just wanting to adapt to changes as they will constantly happen. I bet you 10 years from now Sam will play completely different. Same for all other classes.
To me Kaiten is less of a removal than Nocturnal Sect (my main and favorite) for Ast but then folks will go "oh that sect nobody used right".