Is it just me, or are Expansions getting more brutal and depressing every time?

Part of me feels like they changed some of the story to be more hopeful or to represent a theme of "even if it seems awful, keep going and it will be okay" given the events of the pandemic over the last two years, and honestly I'm fine with that. I don't think a story needs to be dark or have a lot of deaths to be impactful.

My biggest problems with the EW story are what others have expressed, the Final Days felt like it had 0 impact on the wider world and it really didn't feel like it was "the Final days" because nothing was affected other than Thavnair and Garlemald, and Garlemald was already destroyed and in a hopeless situation when we got there. One of the things I liked about Shadowbringers was that it was centralized in "not-Eorzea" and the sort of familiarity of it really drove home the feeling of hopelessness on the First for me, and I was hoping that we'd have gotten a chance to see the Final Days happening in Eorzea to really drive home what the Ancients felt in seeing their world fall apart. Thavnair and Garlemald lacked that for me as I didn't have years of investment in those zones. If we had seen it happening in Ul'dah, or Ishgard and seeing all that we worked to improve in expansions past, I think it would've been a much more relatable situation. Obviously that's not to say that I didn't care when it was happening in Thavnair, but with anything it hits home more when it's happening "at home."
I also really didn't like the tonal shift that happened whenever the Loporrits showed up even though I like the Loporrits. We just got done fighting a desperate battle in Garlemald, did we really need Puddingway to show up and complain about how there's no pudding? It was so jarring that it took me out of the story and I think the moments of comedic relief in EW fell really flat on their face.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It's stated in the game that we flew over most of the country in airships to go straight to the capital. And that we could only pull that because of the civil war and the upheaval caused by the Telophoroi. Much like the Azim Steppe, we only see the part that's immediately relevant to the plot.

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Also when you came back from Elpis, you were informed when the Final Day hit Germelard, your fellow scion spread out leading several contingent of the EA to help out Emperial populace, and there success was just a drop of water in an ocean given how vast the Empire is.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I know your thing.. is trolling.. or at least being "edgy".. but lots of people died who weren't the two girls in

Garlemald. I suppose what you'll say next is that they all were so inconsequential you forgot, but not only did people die, we saw someone basically lose his mind and go from the most empathetic caring creator to a nihilistic madman, a loyal and steadfast leader choosing suicide over accepting the truth or at least accepting the world had changed and he might still be able to contribute, someone else wade through grim knowledge they had and trying to rally their dying people while knowing it was mostly futile.. there was even a dungeon where we got to see very briefly a mother lose hope and turn into a monster right in front of her children who then follow.

There's a lot of depressing and sad moments in the story. Were you paying attention at all?

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I was supposed to feel sad during those moments? I was mostly indifferent to every moment you said honestly. I felt like the 2 girls dying was just thrown in so they could rehash Ysayle's line about no child dying alone in the snow and was kind of upset that they'd waste such a line on these 2 girls but it did at least served a narrative purpose for Alphinaud so I gave it a pass. The suicide of a overly proud and ignorant fool was of no loss really as it had no real emotional depth to it. I didn't like the dude so him offing himself was just there for shock value and little more. Considering we already knew what was going to become of Nihilistic Madman, I honestly expected something a bit more traumatizing to happen that triggered that descent but all that really happened was they threatened to shut down his dynamis experiment and he went psycho.

The only really sad moment I could think of the entire expansion was probably in Thavnair with the mother protecting her child from the blasphemy and even that paled in comparison to some moments from previous expansions.

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

The only thing that actually spooked me was Meteion having her little "episode" on Elpis when she reconnected to the shared consciousness, but that's just because I'm a jumpy mofo.

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I loved loved loved that. I got the same feeling as if it were the activation of an Emergency Alert System. That chilling noise, followed by the chilling message.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

My biggest problems with the EW story are what others have expressed, the Final Days felt like it had 0 impact on the wider world and it really didn't feel like it was "the Final days" because nothing was affected other than Thavnair and Garlemald, and Garlemald was already destroyed and in a hopeless situation when we got there. One of the things I liked about Shadowbringers was that it was centralized in "not-Eorzea" and the sort of familiarity of it really drove home the feeling of hopelessness on the First for me, and I was hoping that we'd have gotten a chance to see the Final Days happening in Eorzea to really drive home what the Ancients felt in seeing their world fall apart. Thavnair and Garlemald lacked that for me as I didn't have years of investment in those zones. If we had seen it happening in Ul'dah, or Ishgard and seeing all that we worked to improve in expansions past, I think it would've been a much more relatable situation. Obviously that's not to say that I didn't care when it was happening in Thavnair, but with anything it hits home more when it's happening "at home."

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I've posted this before in the lore subforums, but it makes perfect sense why it was isolated. Look at everything we did in ARR, HW, SB, and all the side content before EW. In every single one of them, people had issues they could despair over, and we took care of the biggest ones each country was facing. There was too much hope in previous areas due to our actions for despair to start spreading rapidly. The Role Quests themselves go over the remaining thing that we hadn't taken care of in each city state, taking care of the very last big problem.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

It's stated in the game that we flew over most of the country in airships to go straight to the capital. And that we could only pull that because of the civil war and the upheaval caused by the Telophoroi. Much like the Azim Steppe, we only see the part that's immediately relevant to the plot.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I've posted this before in the lore subforums, but it makes perfect sense why it was isolated. Look at everything we did in ARR, HW, SB, and all the side content before EW. In every single one of them, people had issues they could despair over, and we took care of the biggest ones each country was facing. There was too much hope in previous areas due to our actions for despair to start spreading rapidly. The Role Quests themselves go over the remaining thing that we hadn't taken care of in each city state, taking care of the very last big problem.

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Pretty much this:

- Granadia: was pretty much unscathed from the last calamity thanks to the elemental's shield. Had made much strike in resolveing internal conflict and racism, the people are content. Trade had also been established with the beast tribes.
- Limsa: the last faction had been brought to the fold, everyone bought into the vision of the Admiral. Peace achieved with the beast tribes.
- Ul'dah: no longer have a refugee crisis, new trade establish with Ala Miho. The conflict between the Sultanate and the Syndicated was resoleved.
- Domar and Alamiho: just regain independent from a long spell of occupation, you can't get more rosy than that.
- Isghard: actually you can, ending a freaking 1000 years long war with dragon. Cherry on top is an economic revival that saw a whole new quarter of the city built and flourish.
- Sharlayan: has been mentality prepared for it for a few hundred years.

Comparing to:
- Thavnair: have a monster spawning tower camping your door, destroying the economy and make it look like a pre-WW2 depression.
- Garlemald: I don't think I have to explain it?


So it make perfect sense the the final day rolling out the way it did, it fits the lore perfectly. In fact, it would fly in the face of the lore had it hit Eorzea all at once, since the story had said MANY time the final days would hit the most vulunerable position first, where hope is deprived and despair reign. Eventually as panic spread the city states will succum, but it makes during the story quest you see the population that was left behind but all the good revolution succumb first.

I said it many time and I'll say it again. I think many complain about EW is because people don't look at the entire scope of the story, but only at small snippets and say it doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I was supposed to feel sad during those moments? I was mostly indifferent to every moment you said honestly. I felt like the 2 girls dying was just thrown in so they could rehash Ysayle's line about no child dying alone in the snow and was kind of upset that they'd waste such a line on these 2 girls but it did at least served a narrative purpose for Alphinaud so I gave it a pass. The suicide of a overly proud and ignorant fool was of no loss really as it had no real emotional depth to it. I didn't like the dude so him offing himself was just there for shock value and little more. Considering we already knew what was going to become of Nihilistic Madman, I honestly expected something a bit more traumatizing to happen that triggered that descent but all that really happened was they threatened to shut down his dynamis experiment and he went psycho.

The only really sad moment I could think of the entire expansion was probably in Thavnair with the mother protecting her child from the blasphemy and even that paled in comparison to some moments from previous expansions.

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Just because you weren't, doesn't mean they weren't supposed to be. It's very obvious it's supposed to play on your emotions and while we can argue back and forth if it was done better or worse.. those moments are in there.

I will argue that shutting down his dynamis experiment wasn't what pushed him over but it was Meteions report of hopelessness.

My whole point being that there are moments in there, well done or not, that were supposed to be sad or to evoke a fear of loss and they're pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

So it make perfect sense the the final day rolling out the way it did, it fits the lore perfectly. In fact, it would fly in the face of the lore had it hit Eorzea all at once, since the story had said MANY time the final days would hit the most vulunerable position first, where hope is deprived and despair reign. Eventually as panic spread the city states will succum, but it makes during the story quest you see the population that was left behind but all the good revolution succumb first.

I said it many time and I'll say it again. I think many complain about EW is because people don't look at the entire scope of the story, but only at small snippets and say it doesn't make sense.

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If you're going to argue lore, Thavnair makes the least amount of sense if we go by it.
DNC's lore states that the practice originated in Thavnair and was designed specifically to fight off negative emotions, much like those seen during the Final Days and yet once the Final Days starts going, all that lore seems to have mysteriously been overlooked. Also, we literally solved the issue of Thavnair's Tower prior to the events of the Final Days even happening so things should have been slowly recovering. So despite not only having an entire combat style designed to combat negative emotions and one of the major points of contention being dealt with prior to the Final Days, the area being the 1st to fall to the influence of the Final Days made no narrative or lore sense at all.

I wouldn't argue too much about job lore, since SE hasn't cared much about them at all (cough cough AST cough cough losing two expacs of job story cough cough GNB being retconned for hrothgar and bozja cough cough).

It did strike me as odd and a let down that we didn't see dancers in action trying to fight off the transformations. Kept thinking that big stage we visited would play a part, but no.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

If you're going to argue lore, Thavnair makes the least amount of sense if we go by it.
DNC's lore states that the practice originated in Thavnair and was designed specifically to fight off negative emotions, much like those seen during the Final Days

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I don't it matter. That would be like saying since Thailand is a very devouted Buddhism country, and because Buddhism teaches enlightenment the people of Thailand must be more enlightened than other country ... Trust me, they are no more enlighten or less sinful than any others. The story did mentioned it, and you see even Maltia even when he was the one who reminded others of the teaching, he came almost to turning while chanting it. You're giving that culture too much credit I think.

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and yet once the Final Days starts going, all that lore seems to have mysteriously been overlooked.

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No ... unless you skip 2 MSG cutsceen ... they mentioned it front and center, it just doesn't have the super omnipotent effect you think it does.

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Also, we literally solved the issue of Thavnair's Tower prior to the events of the Final Days even happening so things should have been slowly recovering.

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Have you talked to any of the business owner that suffered during COVID? Once a business fail, there often no going back. And even if one can, many won't have the will to rebuild something that was built over decade from scratch. My grandfather was a very rich man, and he invested everything in a trade ship. That ship sunk and insurance was barely enough to cover liability so he didn't have to go to jail, but he lost everything. Many years later he admitted at one point he thought about renting a bus, put the whole family on it (about 15 people) and just drive it off the cliff. So yeah, I can totally relate to the feeling of the Thavnair's people.