Is bard in a bad spot right now?

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Originally Posted by ExcogEnjoyer

The thing is, Foe + Refresh was genuinely a fun combination because you could use them both in about 3 or so ways and they were all equally valid in their use. There's a fun interplay between Using refresh to extend Foe's duration and using it to make its cooldown tick faster, I really liked that. And giving bard a reason to use mana is fun, especially when it helps the party.



What a dumb statement. If you like current bard and think it embodies the Bard archetype, then you simply don't like what a Bard actually is, simply put.

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Ignoring the remedial statement regarding “If you like BRD, you don’t like BRD” as it’s remedial

But a big part of Foes reel is Mana and without refresh or any mana skills which have zero hope of returning, Foes is just a Dot. Aaand also Mana isn’t really a big deal for any job lately besides BLM and DRK. I wish we focused on improving what the devs have been dead set on keeping rather than just saying revert when they cleaned the system for said changes like mana skills and caster appeal. It’s in the past

I don't care if foe's requiem consumes mana or whatever other resource they come up with, I'd like it back because it's a song. A class called "Bard" should be focused on music instead of archery.

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Originally Posted by ExcogEnjoyer

The issue is that Radiant Finale is nothing more than a divination rehash pity skill that square is slopping out because they can't bare to give bard an actually unique skill.

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Technically due to its CD and how each percent is increased I don’t think it will work anywhere close to divination, face value yea…which again I fully expect from past posts

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I don't care if foe's requiem consumes mana or whatever other resource they come up with, I'd like it back because it's a song. A class called "Bard" should be focused on music instead of archery.

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This is the issue with your guys mind set Bard is a hybrid of both an archer and a Bard. It sings songs to Buff the party and does damage with the bow. What SE has created in terms of this hybrid is very well designed in the way that it flows. Everyone complaining it should be just the Bard Part and not the archer part are basically asking for a new class entirely. The problem is there is no pure support Role in FF XIV its divided into Tank, DPS, Healer there is no specific role called support. Bard is a DPS and in order to do damage instead of a mage that plays song they opted for an archer hybrid that plays songs.

1. This isnt Bard from FF11

2. This is a hybrid song and Archer job

This is what SE chose to make the job for FFXIV many love it some would rather it be a mage music job instead but its not so you people need to move on from that already......

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Originally Posted by Easayia

This is the issue with your guys mind set Bard is a hybrid of both an archer and a Bard. It sings songs to Buff the party and does damage with the bow. What SE has created in terms of this hybrid is very well designed in the way that it flows. Everyone complaining it should be just the Bard Part and not the archer part are basically asking for a new class entirely. The problem is there is no pure support Role in FF XIV its divided into Tank, DPS, Healer there is no specific role called support. Bard is a DPS and in order to do damage instead of a mage that plays song they opted for an archer hybrid that plays songs.

1. This isnt Bard from FF11

2. This is a hybrid song and Archer job

This is what SE chose to make the job for FFXIV many love it some would rather it be a mage music job instead but its not so you people need to move on from that already......

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It took them 8 years to add a real Summoner to this game. I'm willing to wait on getting a real Bard and a real Ranger class for a little while longer. As the job is now I cannot recommend it to anyone with a straight face who wants to be a Bard or an Archer, it's just as thematically confused as Summoner used to be with the focus all over the place and its songs being an afterthought.

That needs to change, something has to give.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Ignoring the remedial statement regarding “If you like BRD, you don’t like BRD” as it’s remedial

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Its not "Remedial" its the truth. Bard doesn't have "songs" it has oGCDs that don't even play freakin music. (WHICH THEY USED TO)

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I wish we focused on improving what the devs have been dead set on keeping rather than just saying revert when they cleaned the system for said changes like mana skills and caster appeal. It’s in the past

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That's cool but have you considered that what we have now might just be strictly inferior both in terms of mechanical depth and class identity?

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Technically due to its CD and how each percent is increased I don’t think it will work anywhere close to divination, face value yea…which again I fully expect from past posts

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Outside of the opener, during which you will use Radiant Finale with only 1 seal, you will use Radiant Finale every time it is off CD when you have three seal- sorry, I mean "Coda"s. You can "Technically" all you want but it doesn't change the fact that its a lazy rehash at best.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It took them 8 years to add a real Summoner to this game. I'm willing to wait on getting a real Bard and a real Ranger class for a little while longer. As the job is now I cannot recommend it to anyone with a straight face who wants to be a Bard or an Archer, it's just as thematically confused as Summoner used to be with the focus all over the place and its songs being an afterthought.

That needs to change, something has to give.

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Damn shame they destroyed summoner in the process. I'd rather that not happen to bard as well.

Regarding the “it took 8 years to get a proper summoner” argument. I doubt SMN will have as much praise as its hype gives it. It’s shallowness has been well documented and is a hot topic right now since they didn’t even try to meld the two aspects together and just seems like Ruin spamming not summoning, with yet again the only 2 summons with even less control. It’s praised mostly due to it being pretty, with very very few topics about the kit at hand and if it’s about it it’s usually how straight forward and toothless it is compared to likes of DNC and MCH. If you want a rework you never liked BRD to begin with and if you never liked BRD to begin with go try other jobs rather than simplify and doll up one with the most ridiculous complaints I’ve seen.

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Originally Posted by ExcogEnjoyer

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First sentence I don’t even know what your complaining about with OGCDs, as all jobs have them. Like saying “MCH doesn’t have machines it has OGCDS!” Well yea duh…also I don’t know when you fell out of BRD but it’s songs originally regened TP and MP which are mechanics that don’t exist in the game anymore, see also Invigorate, Goad, Mana Shift ect. Having said this even it’s first incarnation in 2.0 was heavily Archery with stuff like Wide volley, flame arrow, quelling strikes, Hawkeye and how straight arrow used to work. Hence why I rather focus on improving on what the devs have it at now than back then

I won’t disagree with your opinions on BRD as job identity is very important to me, but mechanical depth in rangers is a loosing game with how skewered bard is it’s still more depthful than MCH and DNC, and is spilling over to Magical ranged now that SMN is more flare than function. Which normally I agree with when talking to BRD mains…but theirs a very distinct difference between them and you

I won’t judge Radiant Finale until launch and I’ve seen lazier skills tbh, but it’s more flexible than divination which doesn’t even exist anymore and can be said is a “lazy rehash of <insert Generic buff skills with 120 seconds here> skill”

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

Unfortunately, BRD has drifted from an "active party support" class to an "incidental party support" class, which I think creates a lot of discontent. I don't choose to play my songs, so if I buff the party 1% damage or 100% it doesn't really register with me. Whereas the older songs were actively managed and felt like part of the class.

We do have battle voice and the new party damage buff, but those are on long cooldowns and conserved for burning phases.

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This is not BRD fault and more of the games design philosophy issue, as all of the active party support skills are dead. And as much praise as DNC gets, it’s support is mostly as straight forward and consequential as 1-2-3 besides Samba and waltz, one skill every ranger has and the other a actual responsive skill rather than routine, BRD doesn’t suffer to this as much but it’s often criticized for it for very unjust reasons

Well, we know what happens when a job eventually reaches stagnation, it gets a rework. Bard is well due for one, at least they're starting to warm more up to music. Even the arrow skills are less...rangery.

Moving forward they should prioritize songs and support though. Till then, Bard will be one the last jobs I level and pursue a relic for while Dancer will be the first in terms of my choice for rdps. It really shouldn't be taking this long to get it right. I wouldn't even mind if Bard got a sort of song-playing minigame similar to Dancer's steps, just make it feel like a class worthy of its name already.