Dark Knight Megathread

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So, what do people think of a """"""totally theoretical"""""" upgrade to Carve and Spit? Outside of the increased potency, maybe DA from TBN can lead to an augment of the skill, like old DACnS? It'd have to have some seriously insane potency or boost Carve to 3K MP restored instantly to compensate. I just really hope it's not just "Level 90 unlock, here's Carve and Spit 2, we've given you 450 extra potency. Also, Esteem can't use it by the way. You're welcome, idiot. "

Job Trailer can't come soon enough. At least AF5 looks great. I'll wear that ASAP.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

*cough* *cough*

So, what do people think of a """"""totally theoretical"""""" upgrade to Carve and Spit? Outside of the increased potency, maybe DA from TBN can lead to an augment of the skill, like old DACnS? It'd have to have some seriously insane potency or boost Carve to 3K MP restored instantly to compensate. I just really hope it's not just "Level 90 unlock, here's Carve and Spit 2, we've given you 450 extra potency. Also, Esteem can't use it by the way. You're welcome, idiot. "

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If we're talking theory, then non-expansion jobs tend to see between 4 and 5 advancements. 2 traits and 2-3 new actions.

A trait with "Improved Dark Arts" that lets it be spent on an OGCD for a markedly improved effect doesn't seem all that unreasonable. It would encourage staying at ~3k MP so you have enough to trigger Dark Arts, and a long amount of time to let cooldowns come back for the upgraded use. utilizing the old math for it, DA C/S was a +150% return (350 potency on a usual +140).

So you consume 3000 MP for Dark Arts (500 potency) and utilize it with Carve and Spit to gain ~1250 potency, which you can achieve with an aesthetically pleasing effect - Carve and Spit hits 3 times. This is +900 potency and +1200 MP (200 potency of MP). Bump up Carve and Spit to 500 baseline potency and that's the nearly +150% on the nose.

Oddly enough this same ratio seems to work for Abyssal Drain and Salted Earth. Abyssal drain at +150% puts it at 500, putting it at a little less than damage neutral to Flood but turning it into an absurd heal. Salted earth at +150% puts it at +450, but Salted Earth is probably prime to either receive an upgrade or be rebalanced higher - It was one of the few abilities to actively lose potency in the transition, and not due to the formula change, so Salted Earth should probably be boosted to 18 seconds at 75 potency (450), giving it +675. Both worth using in Single target and definitely worth using in AoE. However, given that I'm not a fan of DoTs, for the aesthetics I'd want it to be something that detonates for the damage, either at the end of Salted Earth or from debuffs stacking on the enemy that you detonate via another Dark Arts skill (Like Flood/Edge), but that's just personal preference.

Seems a good trait to put at 84/88.

Dark Mastery: Carve and Spit, Abyssal Drain, and Salted Earth consume Dark Arts to improve their effects. (As above)

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

If we're talking theory, then non-expansion jobs tend to see between 4 and 5 advancements. 2 traits and 2-3 new actions.

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Seems a good trait to put at 84/88.

Dark Mastery: Carve and Spit, Abyssal Drain, and Salted Earth consume Dark Arts to improve their effects. (As above)

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I like the way you think. You get the benefit of DA altering skills like before ShB, but with the ability to stockpile the DA effect without it falling off naturally, being consumed by something you didn't want, and it cannot be spammed, by the nature of requiring a TBN break. There's even a small precedent for a system like this already existing in the game right now, Chelonian Gate on Tank BLU.

There's a hidden benefit to this, by having DA procs be consumed by other abilities, you actually remove Edge of Shadows from your rotation. This directly leads to Darkside no longer being as easy to maintain, because there are other things to use the MP for, TBNs for DA procs for augments when you need them. Of course, if you need to EoS, you are able to. But you could have a problem where you EoS so much in between bursts, you won't have the MP to TBN to gain the DA proc to use with oGCDs in time. And on the flip side, if you augment everything without your MP regenerators ready, or repeatedly fail to break your TBNs, it could leave you in an MP drought unable to use EoS, and you couldn't refresh Darkside for a little bit (albiet, this would be the more uncommon of the two.) One of my biggest issues with DRK right now is the lack of true choices, and the non-issue of Darkside upkeep. With this, you get a little bit of that. The choice to refunding your MP for Edge/Flood to keep up Darkside, or stockpile that proc for MASSIVE hits. I was always saying we needed a Darkside spender, I never thought about just using Edge less in the rotation by giving you an alternate spender for the proc! Not using TBN would be a straight DPS loss, since you wouldn't generate any procs. It pushes the DRK=TBN identity even further, we already know we're getting an augmented version of it. It's sounding better the more I think about it.

This actually fixes some things. You're also not removing anything at all from the kit, just expanding on the current foundation. I really like just this. I was thinking just now, "Well, assuming if CnS and AD are on the same cooldown in EW, surely you can't get a TBN break for both of them without dealigning them, not every fight will have a point where TBN can break instantly like that for the proc."

Sounds like a decent place for a new Delirium to go. Gives a free DA proc. It's 3K MP anyway right? Give it to people in SB saying "look free edge" and come mid-80s, whack 'em with the trait, and let them come to the natural conclusion that it's not just free edge anymore, it's easy augmentations. Weave it in the opener. TBN > Open > Edge > TBN breaks for proc > wait for raid buffs > DASkill+Delirium > DASkill+other stuff. Single target, CnS and Salted, in AoE, you use both Abyssal and Salted. But at the level you get Delirium (68?), we'd be looking at a semi-rework situation, you don't even get Dark Arts until TBN (70), the job gauge doesn't update until then, you'd need serious potency adjustments to balance the bloodspiller amount getting slashed, so I find that particular idea unlikely. It's nice to dream though! I love your core idea.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

you actually remove Edge of Shadows from your rotation. This directly leads to Darkside no longer being as easy to maintain, because there are other things to use the MP for...
...One of my biggest issues with DRK right now is the the non-issue of Darkside upkeep.

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I also hate the Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam, and although I already did post it in other Dark Knight threads, here is my own idea for how to deal with both the spam issue and the DarkSide upkeep is BrainDead issue...

First / Direct kill-off of the Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam. Both actions are changed to have a 15 second CD.

Second / Actions that grant and/or extend the DarkSide effect have that effect reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds, a direct attack on the upkeep issue, while this makes DarkSide not possible to maintain, if the Dark Knight uses only either Edge or Flood of Darkness/Shadow.

Third / The Dark Knight has four separate actions with the DarkSide additional effect. Two will grant and extend DarkSide, these two are Edge of Darkness/Shadow and Flood of Darkness/Shadow, while two will only extend DarkSide, two new oGCD actions; but these two will both have a CD, and will not share CD like how Edge of Darkness/Shadow and Flood of Darkness/Shadow do. Additionally, all four actions grant and/or extend DarkSide by only 15 seconds...
Like this, the Dark Knight has to use a oGCD action "rotation", between either Edge or Flood of Darkness/Shadow and either one of the two other oGCD actions, with their larger CDs, in order to maintain/upkeep the DarkSide effect, while also being tight enough that the Dark Knight has to put actual effort towards to keep the DarkSide effect active.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

It pushes the DRK=TBN identity even further, we already know we're getting an augmented version of it.

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To be honest, I more or less have The Blackest Knight written as a name in my black book...
I view The Blackest Knight as a action that could be good, and at the moment is not. Just in my opinion, I see The Blackest Knight as a stupid action design, and that a part of it needs to be removed. I think that the mockery of Dark Arts should be deleted from The Blackest Knight... although I view the If-broken nonsense as not a bad idea, I view the If-broken bonus being a direct effect on the Dark Knight's damage potential.. as a stupid design that needs to be deleted, as it is a literal liability, in my perspective.
I would like it if The Blackest Knight's If-broken bonus was changed to a additional defensive effect, to make the action a great pure-defense action, instead of its current stupid design of being a literal liability to the Dark Knight's damage potential.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

This actually fixes some things. You're also not removing anything at all from the kit, just expanding on the current foundation.

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with that said, I will add... Although I admit that I am quite bias, and I hate the 5.x Dark Knight and its GamePlay quite a lot, I can also see, after reading through it all, that this IS a good idea... If I can not have what I want, and Dark Knight never be what I want it to be, a idea like this would be a good enough improvement, and much better than the absolute trash that is the 5.x Dark Knight disgrace.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Sounds like a decent place for a new Delirium to go.

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while, last.. but aught except the least, on the subject of Delirium...I desire that 5.x Delirium ceases to exist, never to exist again... I want to see, and would prefer that, Delirium sort of revert back to 4.x Delirium, in the sense of a X.x Delirium being a remastered 4.x Delirium. Make the action once again be a action that directly restores MP, and buffs further restoration of MP, through giving a duration bonus or increase, or one-time use buff, to other MP restoring actions.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Sounds like a decent place for a new Delirium to go. Gives a free DA proc. It's 3K MP anyway right? Give it to people in SB saying "look free edge" and come mid-80s, whack 'em with the trait, and let them come to the natural conclusion that it's not just free edge anymore, it's easy augmentations. Weave it in the opener. TBN > Open > Edge > TBN breaks for proc > wait for raid buffs > DASkill+Delirium > DASkill+other stuff. Single target, CnS and Salted, in AoE, you use both Abyssal and Salted. But at the level you get Delirium (68?), we'd be looking at a semi-rework situation, you don't even get Dark Arts until TBN (70), the job gauge doesn't update until then, you'd need serious potency adjustments to balance the bloodspiller amount getting slashed, so I find that particular idea unlikely. It's nice to dream though! I love your core idea.

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There's definitely room to improve the leveling process and when you unlock certain mechanics. Earlier the better.

For example, if at level 30 or 40, the Dark Knight unlocks 'Shadow Skin', an early version of The Blackest Night. Perhaps it only gives the health shield here. Then at level 70, it morphs into the Blackest Night, which grants the Dark Arts on breakage. Create the thought process that "I attack or defend" (Shadowskin) to "I defend to attack" (The Blackest Night) to "I defend to wallop the crap out of something" (Improved Dark Arts)

Introduce the concept of "Dark Arts" around level 50 or 60 with the trait "Another Victim", gained whenever you kill an enemy. This is more of a world / dungeon boon, but it allows the introduction of Dark Arts prior to TBN.

Honestly, I have no idea what should be done with Delirium. I'll have a different answer every day. Like right this very moment, I'd say get rid of it and replace it with a modernized Scourge.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Introduce the concept of "Dark Arts" around level 50 or 60 with the trait "Another Victim", gained whenever you kill an enemy. This is more of a world / dungeon boon, but it allows the introduction of Dark Arts prior to TBN.

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"Another Victim" takes me back. It would work as a trait but honestly, Sole Survivor had a cool animation so I would love to see them return the ability in the following way:

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Sole Survivor - Level 58 Ability
Marks target with the status Another Victim. If that target should be KO'd in battle before the effect expires, grants Dark Arts and restores HP with a Cure Potency of 800. If the effect expires first, restores HP with a Cure Potency of 1,200.
Duration: 15s

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It fills in the dead level we currently have at level 58, and it can give a variable amount of Healing. If the target dies, we get less HP and Dark Arts. If the target doesn't die, we get a nice burst heal with potency equivalent to Equilibrium and Aurora. More damage in trash packs, more healing in boss fights where Abyssal Drain ain't exactly doing much with it's 200 Cure Potency.

Can we do something about Dark Mind. There arent any ingame tooltips that show whether an attack is magical or physical. You just have to assume if its a spell that its magical or if its an AOE. Dark Mind either needs an additional effect or needs to be 10% physical and 10% magical reduction.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Can we do something about Dark Mind. There arent any ingame tooltips that show whether an attack is magical or physical. You just have to assume if its a spell that its magical or if its an AOE. Dark Mind either needs an additional effect or needs to be 10% physical and 10% magical reduction.

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they have pointed out that they are not intentionally hiding what is or not magical damage just haven't found a way to implement it yet
and it might aswell just be 10% damage reduction with what you said
if anything dark mind should be 10% physical and 20% magical

Dark should excel in magic defense not be gimped by it

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Originally Posted by Derio

Can we do something about Dark Mind. There arent any ingame tooltips that show whether an attack is magical or physical. You just have to assume if its a spell that its magical or if its an AOE. Dark Mind either needs an additional effect or needs to be 10% physical and 10% magical reduction.

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They mention there's only so much they can allocate to the UI atm. I wonder how much it would cost to have a little icon next to damage text and cast bars - Yellow for Physical, Purple for Magical.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

They mention there's only so much they can allocate to the UI atm. I wonder how much it would cost to have a little icon next to damage text and cast bars - Yellow for Physical, Purple for Magical.

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Not a bad idea, for now we can only assume based on the visual and the type of ennemy, and the attacks name.