SCH, Energy Drain, and 6.0

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

And WHM being the only healer whose identity is having holes in its kit would get dunked on yet again. Like Stormblood.

Either the healers all have weaknesses or they all don't. Squeenix has proven time and again they will never give WHM utility. AST and SCH either get weaknesses or they're just plain better. I'd rather not have the overpowered wonder twins back. Nerf AST instead.

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They don't know how to properly nerf.
We saw what happened. When they nerf, they completely butcher

Buff instead.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Umm... SCH never had any of those things, at least not how you indicate. To start SCH did have Shadowflare, like SMN, but it was a spell until SB where it was turned into an ability, then in ShB it was removed from both.

Fester was never a SCH skill, it has always been SMN exclusive. I'm not sure if you played SMN/SCH prior to ShB, but Fester was always a job exclusive skill SMN got at 30. It was only in ShB that the skill was moved into the ACN portion of leveling. Probably a jab at the old ARR memes of a SMN just being an ACN with Fester, lol.

Atherflow, for. SCH, hasn't changed at all, the skill still functions as it always has. The only change, that both makes sense, but is still annoying, is the MP regained from the skill. It use to be 20% but is now 10%. What it does has changed, but it's functionality is the same. This is not the case with the SMN version of Energy Drain, which use to be identical to the SCH version, but now performs a different function.

Similarly, Lustrate still serves the same purpose, it was just changed to a flat potency heal instead of a percentage heal. Which was a good move given the current state of HP pools. If the percentage was still as it was, SCH would be broken, as they would heal around 40,000k+ HP on a tank. Though, I'll admit the time may have come for Lustrate to get a little boost in potency.

Anyway, the point I'm expressing is that Energy Drain is, and has always been SCHs only for of DPS for Aetherflow. Shadowflare never used a stack, SCH never had Fester, and Aetherflow and Lustrate are the same skills they've always been, just changed slightly.

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Just to add: Bane also cost 1 stack of AF, and was a DPS tool too, just much more situational.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

They don't know how to properly nerf.
We saw what happened. When they nerf, they completely butcher

Buff instead.

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This exactly. AST has been basically unplayable at the start of every Expansion, and SCH is at 2/4 (maybe 3, but I wasn't here for 2.0, so I can't speak for that). They don't start as the wonder twins, but they sure do get there.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

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Because lustrate was hp based, you ended up having decision making on the fly between which heal you used. Physick didn't used to be emergency button.

Fester I admit I got mixed up with Bane (I'm running on about 2 hours sleep atm ><) which also required an aetherflow charge and has also been deleted from sch

Energy drain was actually the mp restores and stack usage, with damage as a bonus, to the point it was rumoured to be losing its damage come HW. That's why energy drain became a stack dump as more healing got added- you didn't need to expend the aetherflow abilities when you could just use regular ones and burn the stacks on damage
Sch was very mp heavy and true to its job lore required thinking ahead about usage given what tools were available. Aetherflow was once a minute and created your rotation start point of 3 aetherflow stacks.
You used your aetherflow stacks as burst healing, shielding (no regen on sacred soil here!) mp restore (particularly after raising) and aoe damage (bane)

Shielding was also much more important in the days of HW and ARR. A4s's last mortal revolution was almost impossible to survive without shielding at appropriate gear level. Titan's final phase geocrush and tumults also required heavy shielding due to substantially lower hp bars.

Given how deadly 2.0 and 3.0 could be due to lag, random crits and mp limitations it really was more decison based. Nowadays mp is just a limit on raising too quick.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Because lustrate was hp based, you ended up having decision making on the fly between which heal you used. Physick didn't used to be emergency button.

Fester I admit I got mixed up with Bane (I'm running on about 2 hours sleep atm ><) which also required an aetherflow charge and has also been deleted from sch

Energy drain was actually the mp restores and stack usage, with damage as a bonus, to the point it was rumoured to be losing its damage come HW. That's why energy drain became a stack dump as more healing got added- you didn't need to expend the aetherflow abilities when you could just use regular ones and burn the stacks on damage
Sch was very mp heavy and true to its job lore required thinking ahead about usage given what tools were available. Aetherflow was once a minute and created your rotation start point of 3 aetherflow stacks.
You used your aetherflow stacks as burst healing, shielding (no regen on sacred soil here!) mp restore (particularly after raising) and aoe damage (bane)

Shielding was also much more important in the days of HW and ARR. A4s's last mortal revolution was almost impossible to survive without shielding at appropriate gear level. Titan's final phase geocrush and tumults also required heavy shielding due to substantially lower hp bars.

Given how deadly 2.0 and 3.0 could be due to lag, random crits and mp limitations it really was more decison based. Nowadays mp is just a limit on raising too quick.

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Very much this. This is the kind of balance I am hoping for when it comes to 6.0 and what I feel is needed if they want this distinction between "pure" and "shield" healers. I always think of Titan Extreme from ARR to be one of the prime examples of how well that pure heal & shield heal balance can complement each other because your WHM would have a different focus to the SCH. In my runs typically it was the SCH that had the most focus on the tanks whilst the WHM focused more on the rest of the party but of course not complete focus, because WHM could help top off tank health and SCH could help absorb the repetitive ground AoEs. SCH also had good tools to keep people's health up too, the perception was often they were weak but IMO they weren't, you just had to work harder or smarter for it.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

Just to add: Bane also cost 1 stack of AF, and was a DPS tool too, just much more situational.

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Ah yes, that slipped my mind as well. I knew they had it but forgot since they finally made the adjustment for SMN not requiring a stack anymore.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Because lustrate was hp based, you ended up having decision making on the fly between which heal you used. Physick didn't used to be emergency button.

Fester I admit I got mixed up with Bane (I'm running on about 2 hours sleep atm ><) which also required an aetherflow charge and has also been deleted from sch.

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Not sure I get what you are meaning with Lustrate, it's main selling point before it became a potency heal was allowing SCH to remain in Cleric Stance longer, since the HP restored was the same regardless. Physick wasn't really an emergency button, now, or even back then. Admittedly it gets more use compared to Cure and Benefic, but it's still meh.

And no worries about the Fester/Bane mix up. Admittedly I forgot about Bane myself.

When I first started the game in ARR Ifrit and Titan Extreme were super challenging. I learned so much in those two fights specifically and the experience has always stuck with me. Scholar Shields felt so good back then and its never really been as satisfying to play Scholar ever since then. If we could get that rush back from having real MP constraints and decision making I would be ecstatic. Piety is useless currently and most fights can be healed with a roulette approach. Just guess which one of your 17 heals you're in the mood for when a raidwide goes out and then back to spamming a nuke button. Im really hoping Endwalker shakes things up for the healing role.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Shielding was also much more important in the days of HW and ARR. A4s's last mortal revolution was almost impossible to survive without shielding at appropriate gear level. Titan's final phase geocrush and tumults also required heavy shielding due to substantially lower hp bars.

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Which is something I heavily regret. It felt so good and rewarding to properly do the mitigation.
You truly felt like a being shielder healer, here to prevent damage.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

They don't know how to properly nerf.
We saw what happened. When they nerf, they completely butcher

Buff instead.

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Squeenix has proven time and again they will never give WHM utility

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Overpowered zero weaknesses AST and SCH running circles around utility-less no identity WHM it is, then? Gee willikers, I can't *wait* for a whole 'nother expansion of AST and SCH mains hogging the meta and condescendingly telling WHM fans that the devs "should definitely bring you up a little". But GOD no not patching the weaknesses in that kit, having zero weaknesses is AST and SCH's thing. Round and round we go.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Not sure I get what you are meaning with Lustrate, it's main selling point before it became a potency heal was allowing SCH to remain in Cleric Stance longer, since the HP restored was the same regardless. Physick wasn't really an emergency button, now, or even back then. Admittedly it gets more use compared to Cure and Benefic, but it's still meh.

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I think Physick healed slightly more than 20% to healers and dps and closer to 10% on tanks but had a 2.0s cast time. Lustrate was more efficient when used on Tanks but was "instant" (1.0s cooldown) so the "decisions on the fly" part might have been more "will that dps survive until Adloquium/Physick finishes casting or will in need to use Lustrate to keep them alive?"