Players should be allowed to smoke in game. Show your support!

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Anyway any coping mechanism that turns into addiction can have negative side effects. Even gaming. Anything done to excess has negative side effects. You don't need to ingest something to seek a destructive coping mechanism.

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Very true, which is why it is important that you recognize that you are not using [item] recreationally anymore but that it has become a coping mechanism.
Once you know that, you know to actually address the underlying problem instead of trying to hide from it.

I know it's tough, I know it sucks. In the long run, the hard choice is the better one.

Though this is not psychological debate. The actual topic was about an emote and personally, I am against anything (movie, advertisement, game etc) that depicts smoking or drinking as "cool" or "solution to help with a problem" etc. It sets a bad precedent in peoples minds.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

Like, I shit you not SE already doesn't care.

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Yep, you're right on that one. Only reason our char's can't do it liberally is probably tied to the rating stuff as other people said.

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We're talking about smoking (however with you bringing that up) just because someone picks up a bottle of whiskey to drink doesn't mean their an alcoholic lol.

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My initial response was to a person that depicted smoking as a coping mechanism. That entails regular use.
Use Alcohol in a regular fashion and you will become an alcoholic. It happens way faster than most people are willing to admit.

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Originally Posted by Coletergeist

Okay? Still off topic by bringing up alcoholism; smoking coping doesn't = alcohol coping.

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Both are toxic substances that harm your health and the health of people around you. I do not see the distinction.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

As s/o who grew up in a household with a drunken and violent father: yeah right. Keep downplaying the dangers of alcoholism.

There are other ways of coping with stress that do not involve such negative side effects. Sadly, drinking/ingesting toxins instead of dealing with what you experienced has become socially acceptable.


You obviously need help or medical personnel would not prescribe medication.... kind of self explanatory.

Sometimes that help comes via therapy, sometimes via medication, often a combination of both administered by professionals.
That is not the same thing as grabbing a glas of Whisky for every problem you encounter and "self medicating" in an uncontrolled manner.

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wait, when did we start talking about alcoholism? We're talking about smoking (however with you bringing that up) just because someone picks up a bottle of whiskey to drink doesn't mean their an alcoholic lol. BUT, I mean, I believe everyone is in agreement that anyone that is an alcoholic needs help......I think you're sort of getting the wrong idea of this whole thread entirely. Just because we're asking for a smoke emote, doesn't mean we're all raging smokers/alcoholic, or whatever you're thinking here.

I don't smoke cigarettes and I think it's gross, but I'm not going to sit here and belittle/criticize folks that do. I smoke the devil's lettuce, you know, but that's about it. Still not judging folks. It's easy to stay out of others' business; but asking for a casual smoking emote (if we're even being serious here, I really don't care at all tbh, but it WOULD be a nice casual emote to have when going afk). Like, have you not noticed how smoking is already in this game? Tsukuyomi smokes while you're fighting her for her kimono. My FC chambers have bottles of spirits everywhere and an ashtray with a lit cigarette on my bar stand. It's...already in the game. Like, I shit you not SE already doesn't care.

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My initial response was to a person that depicted smoking as a coping mechanism. That entails regular use.
Use Alcohol in a regular fashion and you will become an alcoholic. It happens way faster than most people are willing to admit.

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Okay? Still off topic by bringing up alcoholism; smoking coping doesn't = alcohol coping. There's differences in whatever method of coping you decide to use.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Though this is not psychological debate. The actual topic was about an emote and personally, I am against anything (movie, advertisement, game etc) that depicts smoking or drinking as "cool" or "solution to help with a problem" etc. It sets a bad precedent in peoples minds.

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Personally I don't view the addition of alcohol or smoking in games to be automatically presenting those things as cool. They're usually used for character building.

Depending on the alcohol someone drinks it can show what class of people they belong to. For example expensive alcohol can indicate wealth. Bootleg alcohol can indicate the person isn't entirely opposed to law breaking. Constantly drinking strong spirits can indicate the person has some personal issues. Same with smoking. Cigars are often very expensive. Pre-rolled cigarettes cost a lot more than those you roll yourself. A pipe can show a person is old fashioned or belongs to a high class in society depending on its style. Someone who smokes even in places where it's not appropriate can indicate the person cares little for social expectations or is even reckless.

Additionally there is nothing stopping a dev or character creator team from showing negative effects from vices like smoking or drinking. For more character building a person who smokes could have a nasty cough, or a person who drinks could be shown to get nausea if they do it too much. They can even show characters getting irritable if they don't get their fix. Just because said vices are in a game doesn't mean they are making it look glamorous or cool. It's all about how the presentation is done.

Look at Gerolt, an alcoholic blacksmith who is endlessly in debt. His drinking strongly suggests it is at least partially responsible for his finances. He is also frequently criticised for his drinking and it is said more than a few times he would be better at his work if he had control of it. Certainly the npcs that interact with him don't make his addiction appear cool or even acceptable behaviour.

Humans are flawed creatures and the best way to make characters interesting is to also make them flawed. Giving a character a vice like smoking or drinking is an effective way to do that.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Personally I don't view the addition of alcohol or smoking in games to be automatically presenting those things as cool. They're usually used for character building.

Depending on the alcohol someone drinks it can show what class of people they belong to. For example expensive alcohol can indicate wealth. Bootleg alcohol can indicate the person isn't entirely opposed to law breaking. Constantly drinking strong spirits can indicate the person has some personal issues. Same with smoking. Cigars are often very expensive. Pre-rolled cigarettes cost a lot more than those you roll yourself. A pipe can show a person is old fashioned or belongs to a high class in society depending on its style. Someone who smokes even in places where it's not appropriate can indicate the person cares little for social expectations or is even reckless.

Additionally there is nothing stopping a dev or character creator team from showing negative effects from vices like smoking or drinking. For more character building a person who smokes could have a nasty cough, or a person who drinks could be shown to get nausea if they do it too much. They can even show characters getting irritable if they don't get their fix. Just because said vices are in a game doesn't mean they are making it look glamorous or cool. It's all about how the presentation is done.

Look at Gerolt, an alcoholic blacksmith who is endlessly in debt. His drinking strongly suggests it is at least partially responsible for his finances. He is also frequently criticised for his drinking and it is said more than a few times he would be better at his work if he had control of it. Certainly the npcs that interact with him don't make his addiction appear cool or even acceptable behaviour.

Humans are flawed creatures and the best way to make characters interesting is to also make them flawed. Giving a character a vice like smoking or drinking is an effective way to do that.

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You're now making me really want this just for character aesthetic and development for Cin. *cry*

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Look at Gerolt, an alcoholic blacksmith who is endlessly in debt. His drinking strongly suggests it is at least partially responsible for his finances. He is also frequently criticised for his drinking and it is said more than a few times he would be better at his work if he had control of it. Certainly the npcs that interact with him don't make his addiction appear cool or even acceptable behaviour.

Humans are flawed creatures and the best way to make characters interesting is to also make them flawed. Giving a character a vice like smoking or drinking is an effective way to do that.

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Gerolt isn't even the only drunk the WoL comes across the guy in charge of the inn right outside of Quarymill has you go throw buckets of water at some drunks. The blacksmiths guildmaster only stops drinking because of your skills as a smith.

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Originally Posted by ChocoPuni

Games like Final Fantasy are there to encourage people to be the best version of themselves, not the worst version.
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Not once was I ever given that impression in a Final Fantasy game. In fact, I felt downright villainous playing as Marche in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance debunking everyone's happiness.

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Originally Posted by ChocoPuni

You could just go and play a game where smoking would be fitting. You don't want to. What you want is to find something beautiful and try to pervert it in every way possible so that you would neutralize the positive messages it is sending to you, so that you wouldn't feel bad about yourself. Games like Final Fantasy are there to encourage people to be the best version of themselves, not the worst version.

Smoking is disgusting, very much like drugs (marijuana included) it makes severe negative impact on one's health. So does alcohol, though it's not as damaging. Sugar can have negative impact, as well but again, it's not as damaging.

If you desperately want a game that makes you feel good about doing something immoral or degrading, there's plenty of them. Final Fantasy is not what you're looking for and never will be.

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Just because you think all these things are disgusting doesn't mean others do. Also smoking is not immoral or degrading. I was confused with how over dramatic you where and asked several people who hate smoking and not one of them agreed with that statement.

Calm down, maybe a cigarette now and then wouldn't make you so high strung.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

As s/o who grew up in a household with a drunken and violent father: yeah right. Keep downplaying the dangers of alcoholism.

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Sorry you had a shitty dad. But given how many people drink and aren't violent, abusive alcoholics... it's really not something that's hard to control for most people. Not saying I condone alcoholism or abuse, but there's no reason to set it up as a real life devil, just because there are shitty people who get dependent. There are plenty of people who are shitty, violent abusers who are teetotalers.

My own father was fairly violent and angry when I was growing up. He beat my face black and blue once when I was about 15, for not remembering how to address an envelope. We had a fist fight two years ago, because I was home, and he got impatient because I wouldn't help him with some yard work at 3pm instead of 4pm. None of this was brought on by alcohol. He was just a spoiled person, only child, later officer in the Army Special Forces, very used to getting his way, very used to altering deals to benefit him etc.

Also, you're going on about long term solutions to stop stressors. Those are hard and more importantly take a lot of time. Smoking and alcohol consumption are immediate by comparison, and there are certain stressors in life that no amount of therapy will make right as well. I'm all for people taking the edge off of life, even if it's temporary, so they can make it through another day to perhaps get the help they need. I'd rather that, a thousand times over, than find another friend dead cause they broke down completely.

But more on topic, emotes don't glorify anything. They're a mode of expression, and we should be free to express whatever we want. And like I said before in this thread, there's already the /toast emote, where we down an entire pint of booze. If we can have an emote for alcohol consumption, we can have one for smoking. I'd prefer it be with old timey pipes and to feature some smoke rings like Gandalf in LOTR honestly, but I wouldn't be adverse to cigars or what have you either.

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Originally Posted by ChocoPuni

You could just go and play a game where smoking would be fitting. You don't want to. What you want is to find something beautiful and try to pervert it in every way possible so that you would neutralize the positive messages it is sending to you, so that you wouldn't feel bad about yourself. Games like Final Fantasy are there to encourage people to be the best version of themselves, not the worst version.

Smoking is disgusting, very much like drugs (marijuana included) it makes severe negative impact on one's health. So does alcohol, though it's not as damaging. Sugar can have negative impact, as well but again, it's not as damaging.

If you desperately want a game that makes you feel good about doing something immoral or degrading, there's plenty of them. Final Fantasy is not what you're looking for and never will be.

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Observably false, starting in Final Fantasy II. Final Fantasy II involves three characters who join a rebel force to overthrow the Empire of Palamecia that has conquered their home nation. These three characters are after revenge for the deaths of their parents. There is a fourth character who is basically an anti-hero, and he spends most of the game on the Empire's side, seeking to take the throne and rule the world, rather than avenge his parents.

Final Fantasy VII, you take on the role of a mercenary working for Eco-Terrorists and bomb the magical equivalent of a geothermal power plant, killing hundreds of innocents right at the beginning of the game. Again, the desire to stop the villain is more personal than heroic. The lofty heights of world saving are merely a by-product of another personal revenge story, and this time innocents are caught in the crossfire.

These are just two examples. There are many others. There are also individual examples in many of the games where more graphic or perverse things are in the game. References to pornography, strip clubs, prostitution, alcohol, smoking, and many other vices all make the list. What's more is that major characters in each game are shown participating in said vices.

Final Fantasy has, on the other hand, always encouraged you to have fun and be adventurous.

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Originally Posted by ChocoPuni

You could just go and play a game where smoking would be fitting. You don't want to. What you want is to find something beautiful and try to pervert it in every way possible so that you would neutralize the positive messages it is sending to you, so that you wouldn't feel bad about yourself. Games like Final Fantasy are there to encourage people to be the best version of themselves, not the worst version.

Smoking is disgusting, very much like drugs (marijuana included) it makes severe negative impact on one's health. So does alcohol, though it's not as damaging. Sugar can have negative impact, as well but again, it's not as damaging.

If you desperately want a game that makes you feel good about doing something immoral or degrading, there's plenty of them. Final Fantasy is not what you're looking for and never will be.

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I LOL'd so hard.