The 5.2 dungeon looks like it'll be a lore bomb

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Originally Posted by Edax

Why? In the real world we're still finding statues from the BC era at the bottom of the ocean. This statue is over 2000 years old and crafted with only bronze metallurgy. This game is filled with far stronger fantasy metals and stone.

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Because sarcasm is funny?

I was poking fun at the person I was answering to

Not every last little detail needs a deep explanation. I suspect the localisation team had a lot of fun with the descriptions of some the Ishgard reconstruction materials for precisely that very reason.

I'd also note that some things are really just a case of game mechanics, such as every aetheryte having a fee associated with it.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to the dungeon - I always enjoy exploring ancient ruins!

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Y'shtola's theory of the Calamities wiping the Source's ruins away is quite likely, but it's not confirmed. Neither she nor us have actually gone down there and looked for ourselves.

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inb4 they're beneath Sharlayan due to tectonic movement shifting where they are relative to the First and this inspired its culture in a spooky "ancient memories" way...

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

This suggests that this is an actual Amaurotine ruin, and not part of Emet's reconstruction. If that's the case, I wonder what this means about the nature of the Sundering. Could it mean that there are similar ruins on all the shards? If that's the case, perhaps we could discover more on the Source somewhere. An intriguing notion, indeed...

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Just bear in mind all of it is actual ruins, over which Emet appears to have super-imposed his own aetheric re-creation. My guess is that the WoL/D will be using the Echo to trigger memories this time. I'm curious as to what may prompt him/her to go there, but since Elidibus is involved on the First, it may be related to him in some manner, unless they want to re-use the whole "ondo spot big baddy" thing again.

Real curious if the dungeon theme for Anamnesis Anyder will be another "lofi hip hop radio - beats to dungeon crawl/tome grind to" type deal. If so will it be another remix of Neath Dark Waters/Mortal Instants or something else entirely.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If anything like that, it might be a "here and now" place that triggers Echo-visions for us but the others can't see the visions.

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I really like the idea of the WoL seeing extra information via Echo-visions while exploring ruins (especially if it becomes confusing for them to separate what's real and what's a memory, and then separating their own memories from others') but I'm curious how well the Echo can facilitate that. Can we see Echos of things that happened pre-Hydaelyn, or would that info remain a mystery outside of whatever we may physically find there?

I imagine at the end of the dungeon a construct springs to life with a mention of how many millennia it has been since "our" last visit. Cue the puzzled look on our face when it spouts broken bits of lore and then we have a vision of events from the past.

The echo vision of the Exarch reading the Heavensward tome also still needs to be addressed. Insofar as I remember, we have never had a vision of the future using the Echo. We even question what that was when it happens to us.

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Originally Posted by Sated

I really like the idea of the WoL seeing extra information via Echo-visions while exploring ruins (especially if it becomes confusing for them to separate what's real and what's a memory, and then separating their own memories from others') but I'm curious how well the Echo can facilitate that. Can we see Echos of things that happened pre-Hydaelyn, or would that info remain a mystery outside of whatever we may physically find there?

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Given the potential meanings of "Anamnesis" in this context (both based on Platonism, IIRC), drawing on the idea of memories of a "true", perfect world, accessible through contemplation (a theme the game touches on in a lot of areas of its lore), but also the notion of knowledge of a past life forgotten through the process of reincarnation, it may be precisely what the Echo will trigger in this case. As far as I recall, it enabled Ysayle to see the truth behind the lie that would trap Ishgard in a thousand-year war, and the same for you through Hraesvelgr's memories, and this time it has a personal connection to the WoL, albeit on a copy of the Source. After all, Hydaelyn did not erase the Source so much as fracture it into 14 shards, so other than whether time itself can render the memory inaccessible, her summoning should have little bearing. They also have the option of having Elidibus show up at some point, or something close to those masks in Oeilvert in FF9, and have either of those trigger the Echo memory, but the personal connection itself may suffice in this case.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

The echo vision of the Exarch reading the Heavensward tome also still needs to be addressed. Insofar as I remember, we have never had a vision of the future using the Echo. We even question what that was when it happens to us.

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That particular vision is of Crystal G'raha's past. We are experiencing an echo of HIS memories, because that event already happened for him. It's just at the time, we (the WoL) had no idea he was from the future.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

That particular vision is of Crystal G'raha's past. We are experiencing an echo of HIS memories, because that event already happened for him. It's just at the time, we (the WoL) had no idea he was from the future.

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I am inclined to accept that answer. I just find it strange that it was in first person and was pointed out as odd by our character, while being triggered without G'raha being present (granted the previous scene did have him talking to us, unless he was watching us sleep). However, I do buy into the the theory that multiple time lines are at play here. Just because we took one path does not mean the other is gone for good (Arbert's body wandering about as the "Wayward Warrior" when we know he is gone. Though it could be a Sin Eater in there.) Echoes of a Fallen Star indeed.

I would have been inclined to say that echo vision of G'raha Tia in the future was a fluke but since we had yet another one of him from his past with out him being even remotely near us, I would then beg to differ. Also Urianger wasnt even close to us when it happened either. The only one close to us was spirit Ardbert and he wasnt even there when that conversation took place.