Bring back crowd control. Bring back branching dungeons. Bring back ADVENTURE.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

"Give us back branching dungeons so people will find the most expedient route through them and berate you if you want to go explore the other way!" >.>

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Do it for MSQ dungeons and then people can run it with trusts. So a fast route with randoms and at the same time being able to go as we want to with trusts.

I'm sure it would get tedious after so many runs of the same dungeon. A lot of you don't have patience to let new players stumble and learn in the existing linear dungeons; this community will implode if it has to try to work together more than it already does.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'm sure it would get tedious after so many runs of the same dungeon.

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Personally, I think it's more tedious to run the exact same dungeon the exact same way everytime. Now, if a branching path needs someone being able to use a Fire spell to lit a brazier, or someone to jump over a gap to activate a drawbridge...runs would have some kind of unpredictability that would keep the dungeon more fresh.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

A lot of you don't have patience to let new players stumble and learn in the existing linear dungeons; this community will implode if it has to try to work together more than it already does.

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Well, if you ragequit your dungeons because you can't do it in a straight line for less than 10 minutes, the one you hinder the most is yourself ;)
That's the interesting things about jerks...they are jerks even towards other jerks.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Not if they don't know where that path is. Since you talked about Toto-Rak, imagine if cells were placed randomly, you wouldn't have any choice but to look everywhere for them until you got enough of them. And on that topic, my guess is that people hate Toto-Rak not because of the branching path, but because of the sticky floor during the last third that adds absolutely nothing gameplaywise and only makes you lose time.

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If the path is randomized, you take away the element of choice. You give players the choice, they choose the path of least resistance. If you take the time to digest this you'll see the exact same problem the devs face, and that's trying to make everyone happy, which just isn't possible. So you appeal to the masses.

The goo is just one of several reasons why players don't like Toto rak. It's really low level, the proto cell objective, last boss is a step up for those new to the game, takes forever to get through. Most of all though, it's not linear. You have to back track a bit to get all the proto cells. Speed parties also tend to forget one leaving someone to go all the way back for it because the boss won't spawn.

Believe me, I would love a dungeon with puzzles, and traps, a threat level by erasing progress if you don't make it past a check point, cool bosses and random pathways each time.... Wait. We have that don't we?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

If the path is randomized, you take away the element of choice.

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Three paths, you don't know which one leads to the exit, what do you do ?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

You have to back track a bit to get all the proto cells. Speed parties also tend to forget one leaving someone to go all the way back for it because the boss won't spawn.

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You have one cell that's not directly into your path, and it roughly the same time to get than read the hint in Sastasha. It's not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Believe me, I would love a dungeon with puzzles, and traps, a threat level by erasing progress if you don't make it past a check point, cool bosses and random pathways each time.... Wait. We have that don't we?

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Oh, great, we have two...and over 50 linear dungeons...who are we to ask for a different balance between the two ? But I wonder what you have in mind when you mention "puzzles"...

You can't bring back things that have never existed.

So ...

No on crowd control. Crowd control doesn't add any difficulty to the player, it just makes it easier for bad players to troll their group. Hard pass.

No to branching dungeons. Look, I absolutely love open-ended RPGs where you have these dungeons with sprawling paths. It's so much fun and excitement, but it's a horrible match for the current psyche of MMO players. You may get some good times in these dungeons for a couple weeks, but once an optimal path has been determined, players will berate and ridicule any tank that does not take the optimal path. It's an added level of toxicity that we can do without.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Three paths, you don't know which one leads to the exit, what do you do ?

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Choose one and go with it. However, you do understand that multiple layouts are essentially a different dungeon that would have to be designed and tested. That is not likely to happen with the game's restrictions. Unless we want less dungeons overall.

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You have one cell that's not directly into your path, and it roughly the same time to get than read the hint in Sastasha. It's not a big deal.

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I never said it was. That doesn't change that it makes players divert from the linear path and that's the point.

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h, great, we have two...and over 50 linear dungeons...who are we to ask for a different balance between the two ? But I wonder what you have in mind when you mention "puzzles"...

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Yes, two. With 300 floors to get through between them and incentives to run multiple times. There's also a good amount of strategy involved to clear these guys. Expecting anything like that to progress the MSQ just isn't going to happen ever.

It would be cool if Square tried something new but that isn't going to happen because the majority of the people are happy with the same formula over and over and over...

i feel like the Original poster doesn't have a lot of experience with MMOs in general OR just plays in a pre-made. Because if you play with the randos in this and other games you would know this is a terrible idea. i mean its great on paper (or pen and paper) but as others and I have said once people find the "optimal" path if anyone deviates from that path or doesn't know that path they will be berated and kicked from groups.

i mean hell i have seen groups kick a tank because they aren't wall to wall pulling because "reeeeeee it might take me 5 extra minutes to complete a dungeon!"