Proposed fixes to Monk

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Originally Posted by Carstien

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

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some people wanted this, so some are happy. I personally was always more interested in monk being interesting to play. All this does is seal monk in as being a highly effective, but simple and depthless job. I will say its probably really smooth now. Keep gl forever

you get gl4, and do it forever, with the one simple rotation forever. press buffs off cool down.

then when they eventually nerf it, it will just be a less effective boring job. So yeah, I basically just accepted monk is not going to be for me this expansion, or the foreseeable future, since they will probably stay on this path.

I'm actually enjoying the changes. TK is still useless though outside of an execute / killing the final add in Eden. No slowdown is nice, RoE is amazing in savage and form shift is a nice QoL in dungeons and lastly, meditating to 5 instantly is so much better before a pull now.

Anatman in the opener sucks however, the move itself is okay and is just a lazy man's form shift if you just want to stay in a certain form while keeping GL which I don't mind. I think I would prefer if it generated 1 GL instantly and then every 3s, not tied to the server. Definitely a step in the right direction imo though, i'm enjoying mnk again

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Originally Posted by Carstien

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

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Uh, not really?
Tbh these were some really no-brainer and small fixes that shouldn't have been necessary to begin with ( should've already been a thing ).
My main issues with MNK still remains, new abilities feel useless and doesn't really change up our rotation at all.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

Similarly with Riddle of Fire, removing the slowdown is essentially the devs admitting that their design was a failure and giving up on it

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actually yoshida agreed what riddle of fire slowdown was bad on a interview he did on the media tour some time before the launch of the expansion, so this was meant to happen, probably they didnt removed it because they forgot about it, that or the noise we made was enought to them and decided for once do it already

anyway, i agree what this changes feels more like band aid fixes to issues what the job suffers from clashing whit a oposite way of content is done, riddle of earth current effect is proof of that, basically by making them give a 30 seconds long "true north" effect added to earth reply is them saying future content will have plenty of movement, so you guys might be unable to do your positionals for long periods so we are giving you all this to aleviate that!
as for form shift refreshing gl stacks, they can keep it only if you are outside of combat to help whit dungeons downtime, that way anatman can be still usefull if they decide to change the way is handled the skill from stand still to refresh gl timer to freeze gl timer until next action, literally, if they do that, form shift in combat refreshing gl stacks won't be needed at all

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Originally Posted by Carstien

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

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oh i am gratefull for what they did, now the job is fun to play somewhat, but a broken job will be still broken, since their solutions are just basically band aid fixes to a bigger issue, the bigger issue being they do not know on what direction take monk, since hw monk had always clashing concepts what did not mesh well, made worse on sb whit literal no changes until 4.2(changes what created a unitended rotation), besides that, on hw they created the whole chakra to be used, yet neither on sb or shb they did really tried to exploit that to evolve the job, we still use chakras on the same way than was used on hw, get 5 chakras to blow them all on one single attack(at least now we have the option to use it on either a single target attack or a aoe one, but thats very shallow), they need to exploit more this gauge by giving more skills what uses it in diferent manners, diferent mnaners as in, skills what requires less chakras to be used, as well diferent effects, orl add some skills what give us chakras by just using them(instead of this janky RNG we have)

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Originally Posted by Carstien

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

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Oh no, I'm completely satisfied... With BLM, DRG, MCH, WHM.... pretty much every class that I've leveled but SMN and MNK. And I do appreciate the changes that the devs finally made to monk.

But I'm insulted. Too little, too late is what I say. If these changes were implemented and taken into consideration with ShB MNK we could have gotten two entirely different skills that aren't Anatman or SSS. Skills that these changes completely invalidate their existence in this game. MNK is still at it's core 2.0 MNK without any job evolution past getting chakras. It's effectively the most braindead job in the game at this point because you hit your same six skills on GCD in order and the only thing you get to do beyond that is use a chakra once in a while. The class still has skill bloat that every other job has had removed (looking at you fist stances), it still has almost completely useless abilities (tornado kick and SSS) and it is now the only job that relies on RNG on RNG to perform (looking at you deep meditation). And to add the cherry on top it went through needless skill prunings that the dwindling playerbase the job had before it became meta in ShB lauded as the best changes monk ever got (Wind tackle).

So no, I'm not satisfied with monk. And while I appreciate the changes that they made with 5.05 that were the bare minimum to make monk playable, I'm not going to give them a pat on the back for fixing something that should have never been broken.

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Originally Posted by Carstien

Some people are never satisfied. Can we not all just say thanks devs, we appreciate it?

Thanks devs, I appreciate it.

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It's not about not being satisfied. It's about these changes showing that:


1.- MNKs base design has always been so solid, very few things they have added have flowed well with the base design
2.- Most of these QoL changes made very obvious some of the issues and problems that MNK has been carrying for years.


The problem is that these QoL changes did about the same thing as every QoL change for MNK does: Makes the basic skills so good, the new ones are useless. And as you can see by the various replies, its pretty clear. (I know, Crafters say hi)

MNK was gutted and gutted hard and while now with no slowdowns we don't "need" oGCDs to fill in some down time. MNK is still the job who has various skills that are predominantly situational.

Since I read the patch notes I asked myself:


- What is GL even at this point? Clearly not a carrot anymore since its beyond easy to gain.
- What is Chakra even at this point? Still very RNG and easy to "overflow"
- What are Positionals at this point? You have 3 skills that can effectively cancel them 90% of the time.
- What are Fists even at this point? 2/3 have always been situational with one of them always ruling over all.
- 10~/25 skills for MNK relate to GL in some form vs 3~/25 relating to Chakras
- What is even leaden fist and why on bootshine only? Why not leave it as a trait?
- What is Enlightenment even? We had Howling Fist serving the same purpose.


I can go on, (I really can) because I have always played MNK since I started this game 5 years ago and played it every expansion and its always down to basic MNK 2.0, and the only things that have come to the job that have added something new to the job imo have been: Four Point Fury, Elixir Field, Chakras(mixed feelings since its just a charged blow) and RoW:GL4 Kai is all we've "really" gotten since 2.0.

Letting formshift refresh GL was more than I would have asked for, but I'm glad we got something that isn't yet another situational ability to keep it up. Riddle of earth? Have to get hit. Six sided star? If I'm able to punch the boss form shift was enough honestly. The new level 78 thing? Can't move while using it.

I didn't necessarily want this, where you should never ever have it fall off outside of niche situations like E1 cutscene, but I did want just one consistent way to keep it going. LIke say, a 60s cooldown ability that refreshes GL duration to help keep it going between pulls/during downtime but not having 100% up time with just it alone. Kind of like how dragoons can get a free refresh on BOTD during downtime but they can't keep it up indefinitely without being able to do their rotation.

I appreciate what they did but didn't neccisarily want it 'THIS' easy.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

- What is GL even at this point? Clearly not a carrot anymore since its beyond easy to gain.
- What is Chakra even at this point? Still very RNG and easy to "overflow"
- What are Positionals at this point? You have 3 skills that can effectively cancel them 90% of the time.
- What are Fists even at this point? 2/3 have always been situational with one of them always ruling over all.
- 10~/25 skills for MNK relate to GL in some form vs 3~/25 relating to Chakras
- What is even leaden fist and why on bootshine only? Why not leave it as a trait?
- What is Enlightenment even? We had Howling Fist serving the same purpose.

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Leaden Fist is there to give dragon kick a purpose and still have two single target abilities to cycle through on that form in our rotation. With blut resistance (and all weapon resistances) gone they did this to make sure both skills serve a purpose.

Enlightenment is just an aoe chakra spender.

Both of these serve a clear purpose.

Greased Lightning is there to build up to maximum dps. Sure the ease at which form shift can now keep it up removes some of the depth in terms of using abilities to keep it going or reapplying it quickly, but that's the main purpose. Similar to say huton for ninjas, it's a buff to work towards rather than having max dps right at the start.

Other than true north what is cancelling the need for positionals?

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

1. What is GL even at this point? Clearly not a carrot anymore since its beyond easy to gain.
2. What is Chakra even at this point? Still very RNG and easy to "overflow"
3. What are Positionals at this point? You have 3 skills that can effectively cancel them 90% of the time.
4. What are Fists even at this point? 2/3 have always been situational with one of them always ruling over all.
5. 10~/25 skills for MNK relate to GL in some form vs 3~/25 relating to Chakras
6. What is even leaden fist and why on bootshine only? Why not leave it as a trait?
7. What is Enlightenment even? We had Howling Fist serving the same purpose.

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1. An annoying wind-up mechanic made to oblige the use of a 2-minute CD (previously both integral, rewarding, and on half the timer), which would otherwise provide fairly little potency value if not for the absurd strength of Leaden Fist, once and only once per instance.
2. A system of 7 which would perform far better if consuming fewer than the maximum value, but for which we lost count at 5 and refuse to do any arithmetic to allow for a remainder or excess of Chakra that would otherwise provide QoL improvements.
3. A thing you lose up to 13% potency on in a given GCD if you really, really suck?
4. A desperate attempt to enforce button-bloat to appear as if skills are useful or well-designed (just because they must be used, however meagerly)? If not for GL4, all but FoF would be something to take off your bar, since there's not a single mechanic you can uniquely escape or survive by use of either, and FoF itself something you macro into your MNK gear swap.
5. Because HW killed Impulse Drive weave for Demo-management, SB killed stanceless weaves for macrorotational and Demo management, and there wasn't really much left to kill after taking out oGCDs than Monk's core mechanic itself. Next: Casters would be so much better if only they could cast on the move! Casting no longer requires you to be stationary. A six-year fundamental issue resolved at last!
6. Previously we noticed that several rotational styles allowed for a 2:1 ratio of BS to DK, which added "unnecessary depth and engagement" to the job that most people would rather pretend just alternates between two skills per form and spins through its cycles really quick-like to the exclusion of all other forms of complexity. We've killed this area of complexity so that others won't have their view of the job upset by the reality of play available at higher levels. Bootshine and Dragon Kick will again properly only ever be alternated in a 1:1 ratio!
7. Take what was given at lower levels and give it back later while splitting what used to be natural AoE strength into binary choices (YOU get an ST/AoE split, YOU get an ST/AoE split, and YOU get an ST/AoE split!) and we can feign the addition of new and complex skills!

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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I wasn't asking an actual question in any of those (and I think Shur got the idea after a few.) But thanks?