GIVE SCHOLAR BANE AND FIX ART OF WAR MP AND WE'LL BE FINE

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Here is the problem, we don't know how much healing we're going to be doing. If we ask for these changes, and then get them, but it turns out we have no time to use them due to lots of healing, then there was no point in getting them. If we wait, it's as bad as we think, and then we ask for this, we'll be justified in getting it instead of all this looking like knee-jerk reactions from the healing community QQing because of a change that we don't know the full scope of until Shadowbringers.

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Here's the problem with your idea. It's called the reaction to Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Here's the problem with your idea. It's called the reaction to Stormblood.

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350+ pages of it. Largely ignored.

Stormblood 4.0 WHM Feedback

Notice a ton of those were before the expansion dropped. From when they showed the pre-patch notes and people looked and knew they wouldn't like the lily mechanic by the way it was described. Just like we're seeing now. That is EXACTLY why healers are worried now. Because we've seen it before. Twice.

Also, Heavensward with AST.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Here's the problem with your idea. It's called the reaction to Stormblood.

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Oh I know full well, I RAGED during Stormblood until the SCH changes came through. WHM wasn't as bad as people thought (Lilies were still trash though). But I'm not going to complain about our DPS at this moment (here's the keywords here) when they've just given the tank stance damage reduction we currently have as a passive to all tanks. Meaning they have to increase damage to compensate for that being the tank base. Imagine the damage the tanks take now, increase it by another say...20-30%, and now imagine how much health % that translates to healers and DPS. Now make that party wide damage for dungeons. That is my logic for why I say wait, that's going to be a lot of damage taken by the entire party, and depending on the frequency of it in dungeon bosses and normal mob pulls, we may not have time to DPS.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That is my logic for why I say wait, that's going to be a lot of damage taken by the entire party, and depending on the frequency of it in dungeon bosses and normal mob pulls, we may not have time to DPS.

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SE's way of increasing mob damage is by taking away tanks self sustain (Abyssal Drain, Steel Cyclone) and changing a lot of the tank mitigation to be less (Raw intuition from 20s to 6)

They also took away healer + healing tool in Largesse ( and gave it back to WHM again via Temperance)

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If we ask for these changes, and then get them, but it turns out we have no time to use them due to lots of healing, then there was no point in getting them.

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The skills are already in the game, all it would take is a bit of balance work from the devs, its not like they need new animations or sound design.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Oh I know full well, I RAGED during Stormblood until the SCH changes came through. WHM wasn't as bad as people thought (Lilies were still trash though). But I'm not going to complain about our DPS at this moment (here's the keywords here) when they've just given the tank stance damage reduction we currently have as a passive to all tanks. Meaning they have to increase damage to compensate for that being the tank base. Imagine the damage the tanks take now, increase it by another say...20-30%, and now imagine how much health % that translates to healers and DPS. Now make that party wide damage for dungeons. That is my logic for why I say wait, that's going to be a lot of damage taken by the entire party, and depending on the frequency of it in dungeon bosses and normal mob pulls, we may not have time to DPS.

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Yet that content where these skills might be useful won't even be a 1/5 of this game's content overall, no content up to end of SB needs these heals, they are worthless pre 5.0, that is a problem and it just reeks of Lazy design, it honestly feels for healers only 5.0 content matters and while it will be new for a bit eventually people will do older content through roulettes or wanting to and it will suck hard as a healer because the already overpowered healer gets more heals >_>

Honestly I thought the SCH changes were fair. All the nerfs were targeted in the right areas (apart from Indom being untouched) and left room to squeeze in their new abilities and buffed the skills SCH rarely used in SB accordingly.

The only problem is it's incredibly boring on the DPS side and using the new fairy cooldowns optimally will require double-weaving them alongside SCH's other abilities.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Honestly I thought the SCH changes were fair. All the nerfs were targeted in the right areas (apart from Indom being untouched) and left room to squeeze in their new abilities and buffed the skills SCH rarely used in SB accordingly.

The only problem is it's incredibly boring on the DPS side and using the new fairy cooldowns optimally will require double-weaving them alongside SCH's other abilities.

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Honestly, the potency numbers add up just fine and the healing toolkit is great (many have argued too good). However the ratio of weaving opportunities to weaving skills is off. Ruin II potency is off and only makes it good as a double weave but next to that all we have to weave are healing skills which we never need to double weave. So we will be clipping a lot.
Also the lack of an AF dump although it might make sense on paper because of the removal of quickened aetherflow removes any expression of skill through optimization options we had. No risk reward nothing. Huge nerf to fun. (As a reminder, you still would have too many stacks with the new system for ultimate fights so they would have to up the healing requirements and make the game much harder for this to be viable)

I suspect that if things stay as they are, healer optimization for scholars will basically mean tending towards solo healing since you won’t want to overheal your af heals. Part of me is really hoping for a solo healing meta in shb. Now that would be fun in more ways than one.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Honestly, the potency numbers add up just fine and the healing toolkit is great (many have argued too good). However the ratio of weaving opportunities to weaving skills is off. Ruin II potency is off and only makes it good as a double weave but next to that all we have to weave are healing skills which we never need to double weave. So we will be clipping a lot.
Also the lack of an AF dump although it might make sense on paper because of the removal of quickened aetherflow removes any expression of skill through optimization options we had. No risk reward nothing. Huge nerf to fun. (As a reminder, you still would have too many stacks with the new system for ultimate fights so they would have to up the healing requirements and make the game much harder for this to be viable)

I suspect that if things stay as they are, healer optimization for scholars will basically mean tending towards solo healing since you won’t want to overheal your af heals. Part of me is really hoping for a solo healing meta in shb. Now that would be fun in more ways than one.

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Pretty much the "best" thing we can hope for at this point, and would probably be the only reason I'd bother to level up a healer to 80...

Too bad the title of this thread isn't "The Make it Bane Campaign"

Timing would be perfect