Two Months of BLU: Discuss!

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think you misunderstood me then, if you believe limited is down played. In my version limited would be it\'s own creation of combo ing different abilities to create wild combos like one might see with legendary sets in diablo 3. It would allow people to join in without having to gear it up like a standard job (power level through ability collection).


I mean it's fine to not like it but literally the idea up plays limited concept not down, so there must be some miscommunication. Like significant levels lol.

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My apologies. I worded that sentence weirdly. I was referring to Kalise's version as downplaying the limited traits.

Your ideas are fine, but why bring in Bard's song playing for comparison? SE barely remembers that it still exists.
Furthermore, you also wish to make BLU an OP solo job. Others may join, but they are unnecessary. Which goes against the social aspects of the current version. I want SE to improve in this regard, not reduce it.

If I misrepresented your ideas, I'm sorry and feel to correct me.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think you misunderstood me then, if you believe limited is down played. In my version limited would be it's own creation of combo ing different abilities to create wild combos like one might see with legendary sets in diablo 3. It would allow people to join in without having to gear it up like a standard job (power level through ability collection).


I mean it's fine to not like it but literally the idea up plays limited concept not down, so there must be some miscommunication. Like significant levels lol.

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thats not a horrible idea, the limited part, but it doesnt particularly fit with the theme of blue, which is generally being an all around mage with highly powered, but very specific abilities. Blue is generally mostly about knowledge of enemy, and using the right skills. and lots of status/control

to me your idea sounds like a decent idea, but for a different or new limited job.

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Originally Posted by Auryan

My apologies. I worded that sentence weirdly. I was referring to Kalise's version as downplaying the limited traits.

Your ideas are fine, but why bring in Bard's song playing for comparison? SE barely remembers that it still exists.
Furthermore, you also wish to make BLU an OP solo job. Others may join, but they are unnecessary. Which goes against the social aspects of the current version. I want SE to improve in this regard, not reduce it.

If I misrepresented your ideas, I'm sorry and feel to correct me.

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AH okay cool more clear now! :)

Yeah so I mentioned bard in that don't need to "main bard" in order to gain those side features (music), and that's why I referenced dancer and choreography. I'll add a little note to the post to clarify that so it's more clear! In this way I was looking for each job that's "advanced" (aka has a limited side) to bring content to players who don't even intend to main the "main job" side of things.

For example you could use Beastmaster's limited side to DoL and raise animals (shepard sort of system) and not have to keep it up as a main tier content to do so, puppet master giving you some minions you can personalize beyond any level a minion normally has right to be, these sorts of new systems not precluded to you just because you're not going to spend the current tier tomestone. You may argue that's true now but I was looking to make the slide in smoother than it is now even, by also encouraging play of the content via that ability quantity/power = ilvl concept.

In this philosophy every new limited portion of a job is a content piece for everyone (and quite unique from each other), and that's why I referenced choreography and the music system (which unfortunately some feels has been abandoned.. so I can see why mentioning bard could be confusing).

You are right though that in my design concept Blue Mage wouldn't need people.... That could definitely be a splitting point for us. But at least we're on the same page again I think :D.

I was thinking Blue Mage's on the limited side would go out, far and wide, across the land, to collect all the skills they could, to become the best there eve-.... yeah okay.. Anyway the idea was that a Blue Mage that collected all the skills would have a very high powerlevel for their "level", and that you could choose to party up to get spells you weren't quite ready for OR you could collect enough skills that your power level was high enough (and combos available to you) allow you to solo content. So theoretically the highest "ilevel" job in the game would be Blue Mage hands down, at least when more skills are added - but this also assumes you collect them all.

I like this particularly because that means spells you don't even intend to use are very important to you :).

But.. yes, I just wanted it to be clear, right now the limited concept didn't rub me the right way and that I wanted to add to it so that it did. I wanted to empower the limited side to the point that I was like "I'd use that", and I thought that you know what could be helpful to players? If we had a job that came up through old content that people were worried was going to die and ensure that can't happen. Oh you're worried Eureka content will end and you can never get that emote? No worry, Blue Mage Limited is slowly creeping through content - once your bae blu gets there then that emote is yours (making sure limited blue cant do current content because that'd obviously cause problems).

Obviously to each their own on what they liked though :). Might suggest you could use these OP blue mages with friends to work on ultimate content, especially the ones that just became accessible to blue mage~.

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Originally Posted by Physic

thats not a horrible idea, the limited part, but it doesnt particularly fit with the theme of blue, which is generally being an all around mage with highly powered, but very specific abilities. Blue is generally mostly about knowledge of enemy, and using the right skills. and lots of status/control

to me your idea sounds like a decent idea, but for a different or new limited job.

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Fair enough :). I'll admit the main driving force of the idea was turning limited concept into something people could fully justify being limited for. "There is no way you could ask for that to be not limited, but it's hilariously strong (even more than it is now) and it's fun to theorize what combos I can make when they add new spells next patch - my favorite currently is the thunderous bubble clap!". New skills meaning you dust off old builds or create entirely new ones, like when new cards come out that shake things up in a TCG or new legendary affix in a hack and slash game like D3. Something like that.

Obviously this concept is inwards focused, get your "cards" and make an interactive deck of legendary affixes vs focusing on what the monsters look like. I'd argue the concept of blue currently wouldn't do it anymore or less than my suggested changes since blue only does that in the carnival due to elemental resistance and I haven't suggested removing that, but I could imagine ideas (and have read ideas) that try to capture the "plan around your enemy" concept more.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

Situation they most likely only encounter inside the masked carnival because anything else is or too weak to matter or totaly imunised. But its the whole point of the carnival after all, special situation for the blue mage to show of skill existing only for this stage of the carnival.

BLU only exist for Carnival and Carnival only exist for BLU to have a purpose in game just like LoV only exist to show minion skills that exist only to be used inside LoV, outside of it they're just cute little thing just like blue mage is just a cute little wanna-be-a-job to kill trash mob with.

You're okay with that, great for you, but it seems like people expect one of the most iconic job of the Final Fantasy franchise to be more than an underwhelming mini-game.

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i disagree completely, the only thing stopping blues abilities from dominating content is the fact they are level blocked or not allowed in content.

Blue would destroy, Eureka, High level HoH, Potd, dungeons, most trials and standard raids. They might not dominate savage raids, due to them being tuned to require peak stats, and negate most game mechanics outside of single target fights.

fact is blues dont need tanks, healers, probably have the most control in the game. They also have a number of powerful situational combos. These traits have use everywhere. Go play blue without a carry, and you begin to see how strong thier kits are. And this is only the level 50 blue.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Fair enough :). I'll admit the main driving force of the idea was turning limited concept into something people could fully justify being limited for. "There is no way you could ask for that to be not limited, but it's hilariously strong and it's fun to theorize what combos I can make when they add new spells next patch - my favorite currently is the thunderous bubble clap!". Something like that.

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The thing is that BLU is NOT a static monolith. There is not just one way the job would work, the only thing that defines it is the fact that it learns abilities from monsters and uses said abilities in what is usually considered "Blue Magic". There is nothing else that one has to strictly follow, nor a theme or a role.
If FFXIV would force BLU into a DPS role, then that would follow BLU's design as long as the monster part is maintained. The same would be for being a Tank or a Healer. It doesn't matter whether it's one or the other, or how complex the class would be, because that's just how it is and has been throughout the various games.

And for those who want to see BLU being opened up to be fully playable, I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to see it work.
This does not come at a cost of the "limited job" aspect, as we've worked out, it only depends on whether SE would be willing to put in the effort.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i disagree completely, the only thing stopping blues abilities from dominating content is the fact they are level blocked or not allowed in content.

Blue would destroy, Eureka, High level HoH, Potd, dungeons, most trials and standard raids. They might not dominate savage raids, due to them being tuned to require peak stats, and negate most game mechanics outside of single target fights.

fact is blues dont need tanks, healers, probably have the most control in the game. They also have a number of powerful situational combos. These traits have use everywhere. Go play blue without a carry, and you begin to see how strong thier kits are. And this is only the level 50 blue.

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Yeah, its easy to make assuption when they just can't do it because of their limitation. If my aunt had balls we would call her my uncle.

Find me a single boss that fit a situational blue combo, remember that they have no damage type weakness nor elemental weakness and they are immune to every alteration. I checked, they at best can use 4 version of the same spell to do damage and spamming "low chance" skill in the hope it will instakill it. Such gameplay, much wow. But I'm maybe wrong here, I played it only the first day, capped it and let it rot because its useless to even bother looking for a rotation.

Boring.

The 1 DMG no stat weapon is a very big detriment. Given it proclivity for soloing, I'd like to be able to melee too, but there's no real point. As for abilities, some do sort of combo with each other, but their uses and cast radius are often so varied that it's generally more useful to simply spam the same attack over and over.

I have not gotten most of the Primal spells, but I see no need for them. I don't care for Masked Carnivale, so I'll just spend my time with other jobs until they properly update BLU.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i disagree completely, the only thing stopping blues abilities from dominating content is the fact they are level blocked or not allowed in content.

Blue would destroy, Eureka, High level HoH, Potd, dungeons, most trials and standard raids. They might not dominate savage raids, due to them being tuned to require peak stats, and negate most game mechanics outside of single target fights.

fact is blues dont need tanks, healers, probably have the most control in the game. They also have a number of powerful situational combos. These traits have use everywhere. Go play blue without a carry, and you begin to see how strong thier kits are. And this is only the level 50 blue.

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We've discussed this with you on other threads but BLU would not dominate these fields as much as you say. Yea they would be powerful in dungeons, but not horrendously broken. It probably would be good in eureka, but eureka is also an semi afk zerg rush, where things die very fast, so thats not too helpful. Trials and raids theyre a decent support dps because of peculiar light, that is all, we've explained to you before that white wind and diamond back does not a broken class make.

Their kit is not that strong, they are piss poor tanks, and have one healing spell, see my post history talking to physic for further details on this.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

We've discussed this with you on other threads but BLU would not dominate these fields as much as you say. Yea they would be powerful in dungeons, but not horrendously broken. .

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Wasn't it mentioned that RDM are more broken in low level dungeons because their base spell potency is very high for that level and they are not limited by slower casts like BLM? I think I remember reading that.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Wasn't it mentioned that RDM are more broken in low level dungeons because their base spell potency is very high for that level and they are not limited by slower casts like BLM? I think I remember reading that.

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Rdm destroys low level dungeons, as they have strong aoe at a low level and have verthunder and aero which pumps out way more potency than any other job of similar level. Rdm actually just dominates level 50 and below, being the best single target dps and one of the best aoe.