BLU and EX Primal Spells

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Oh look, another troll. These skills are completly optional. Period.
I asked for the reason why he went through something he disliked. And I got my answer already: he is a completionist. Also, you don't need to answer the question for him.

Keep hatin'.

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The skills are just as optional as any other spell. I mean, you could just cast Jolt 2 over and over again but you'd be sub par. Because that's what Glower basically amounts to (with the 50% damage up with Off-Guard). It hits almost exactly as hard as Jolt 2 without the Dualcast.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

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First I want to say you are right. No one is forcing me to grind these out, I'm doing it because I cant stand that question mark in my book.

It is more than my completionist nature though. If you don't end up getting these abilities while people are still trying to get them you will not be getting them in the near future. Ponies can be farmed in WTs because they drop at the end and people aren't going in for them, they're going in for the kill for their book. You cant do that with these skills. Titan will be dead before his first buster, Shiva will be dead long before her bow comes out. To compound the issue you have to be a BLU to acquire it, and BLU is turned off BY DEFAULT when making a party in the party finder. So unless you have a friend or FC willing to sink anywhere between 1 and 30 hours into dragging one person through the same content over and over and over again, you will not be getting this ability.

Alternatively, make these bosses susceptible to all of BLU's kit. Petrify? Freeze? Doom? Sure! You cant que for it anyways, why not let it be the broken we were promised!

I'm making myself suffer now (about to re-que until I'm sick) so I don't suffer later. And I dont trust Square to make this part better because I didn't bite when they said "Eureka would be better than Diadem" and while I scraped through Anemos, Pagos is where fun goes to die.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Oh look, another troll. These skills are completly optional. Period.
I asked for the reason why he went through something he disliked. And I got my answer already: he is a completionist. Also, you don't need to answer the question for him.

Keep hatin'.

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Troll? If you consider a troll someone who leveled blue mage to 50 and spent hours trying to farm primal skills only to come up short. I have played this "game" and find that there is nothing acceptable about this 50 skill grind. It is per rng based class progression that locks you out of some of the best parts of the class. I would consider these non optional as without them your spell roster is laughable.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The skills are just as optional as any other spell. I mean, you could just cast Jolt 2 over and over again but you'd be sub par. Because that's what Glower basically amounts to (with the 50% damage up with Off-Guard). It hits almost exactly as hard as Jolt 2 without the Dualcast.

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Are you really comparing a regular job, going on regular duties where it is expected that you perform to the best of your capabilities, to a limited job which was basically made "for the lulz"? And you think that's a fair comparison to do, when the stakes and expectations of others are completly different? Well, I assume you do, otherwise you wouldn't have made it I guess...

So, where are you going to be "sub-par" exactly when playing BLU? In farm parties where a Lv.70 is here to carry you? In the Masked Carnivale where you will be on your own?... Let me rephrase the question: why does it matter to be optimal with BLU?
I can see why it matters on regular jobs. But I don't get why that's a necessity for BLU given what the job is about.

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Originally Posted by Atlas-04

Troll? If you consider a troll someone who leveled blue mage to 50 and spent hours trying to farm primal skills only to come up short. I have played this "game" and find that there is nothing acceptable about this 50 skill grind. It is per rng based class progression that locks you out of some of the best parts of the class. I would consider these non optional as without them your spell roster is laughable.

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You leveling your Blue Mage to 50 and farming skills have absolutly nothing to do with you calling me a white knight, answering in the place of someone else's personal reasons, and telling me stuff that I already know about ("skills are not mounts!". Good job Sherlock!). It seems that you just saw my name and got triggered, so you had to find something to tell me, even if it's completly irrelevant to what I actually asked. This is why I called you a troll.

And here again, you tell me stuff that I already know while completly missing the point. I don't care if you find that grind it acceptable or not. That's not what I asked. I asked why -if you find it "unacceptable"- did you forced yourself to do it? You say that these skills "locks you out of some of the best parts of the class"... Except it actually doesn't. There is absolutly no piece of content locked behind these skills except an optimal "rotation", which is itself completly unnecessary.

But whatever. I already said in another thread that I shouldn't answer trolls, and I already answered twice to you. So I'm going to cut it here and simply add another one to the blacklist. You don't seem to have anything of value to provide, and I don't need people of accusing me of being a white knight because they don't like when logic and facts are used against their precious opinions.

Again, keep hatin', you're doing great.

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EDIT: Just so I don't get someone else like that coming at me for whatever agenda they have or because they don't understand what I'm saying or what I actually think personally: I actually think that the drop rates for the Primal skills are too low. I think that this grind doesn't really provide much enjoyment. I'd also like incentives to play with 8 BLU and tackle on Extreme Primals instead of getting carried by Lv.70s. But I'm also not too bothered by it simply because I'm quite resilent to repetitive tasks and I grew up with MMORPGs with far worse drop tables than that. In short: I've seen way worse.

But these are only my mere subjective opinions and past experiences. They are not facts, and I'm not entitled to get everything I want... Simply because that may not be what someone else wants. Some people may like that type of grind or think that the droprate is fine for these 5 star abilities supposed to be rare.
This is why I very rarely say what my own subjective opinions are: because they are just that, and everyone has their own. And I'm not selfish or narcissic enough to think that my personal needs should be fulfilled.

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Why then, did I asked AlchemicMike why he went through that grind he obviously didn't like? To make him question his own choice to inflict something he didn't like to himself and make him wonder if it was worth it (him and everyone like him, including myself). To remind everyone that this is a video game, and doing things you like is important. If you don't like doing something, don't do it. But don't automatically assume that it has to be changed to please you. Especially if that stuff is completly optional.
If you go through something you don't like, for no or a very minor benefit that you don't think was worth it, and then come complaining on forums how ridiculous that was... Yeah, it was completly ridiculous. Which is why you shouldn't do it. You are also giving SE the numbers they need to think that your complains don't matter, since you did it anyway. So not only you did something you hated doing, but you actually participated in keeping things the same.

I don't defend Square Enix. I argue against ridiculous things people say. I ague against objectively bad or flawed arguments. Why? Because these are worthless. If I can find objective flaws in someone's "solution" to whatever kind of issue they have with the game, so can SE. It means that these have a very high chance of getting dismissed by the devs.
So yeah, I don't care if people think I'm being some kind of passive-agressive and condescending dude trying to break people's dreams. If there's a chance that some people might pick that up and improve their arguing skills to express themselves better so that Square Enix cannot easily brush it off, then I'll keep doing it. But if a random dude can use facts and objective arguments to poke at your opinion, getting offended isn't really going to do much. Using better arguments will.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

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Certain fights in Masked Carnival have a DPS check made as part of the mechanics. Primal skills are almost requried to meet those DPS checks since these skills are basically the main source for BLU high DPS rate.

without them the BLU is stuck spamming 1 or 2 skills that only do 120 potency or 130 potency against enemies that are naurally resistant to conditions, instant death, and instant HP% damage skills and not meet the DPS check.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Certain fights in Masked Carnival have a DPS check made as part of the mechanics. Primal skills are almost requried to meet those DPS checks since these skills are basically the main source for BLU high DPS rate.

without them the BLU is stuck spamming 1 or 2 skills that only do 120 potency or 130 potency against enemies that are naurally resistant to conditions, instant death, and instant HP% damage skills and not meet the DPS check.

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I completed the Carnival without any Primal skills. Besides, you can actually learn every skill needed to complete the Carnivale while playing 100% solo (this is beyond the point, but it's to show you how easy the Canivale actually is).
Sure, these skills can help you meet these DPS checks, but then that's only a git gut issue.

Just acquired Shiva Extreme's Glass Dance after 40 runs.
The bittersweet part of this, is that after we switched jobs to carry the people who carried us, they got it in 1 try.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

You leveling your Blue Mage to 50 and farming skills have absolutly nothing to do with you calling me a white knight, answering in the place of someone else's personal reasons, and telling me stuff that I already know about ("skills are not mounts!". Good job Sherlock!). It seems that you just saw my name and got triggered, so you had to find something to tell me, even if it's completly irrelevant to what I actually ask. This is why I called you a troll.

And here again, you tell me stuff that I already know while completly missing the point. I don't care if you find that grind it acceptable or not. That's not what I asked. I asked why -if you find it "unacceptable"- did you forced yourself to do it? You say that these skills "locks you out of some of the best parts of the class"... Except it actually doesn't. There is nothing locked beind these skills except an optimal "rotation", which is itself completly unnecessary.

But whatever. I already said in another thread that I shouldn't answer trolls, and I already answered twice to you. So I'm going to cut it here and simply add another one to the blacklist. You don't seem to have anything of value to provide, and I don't need people of accusing me of being a white knight because they don't like when logic and facts are used against their precious opinions.

Again, keep hatin', you're doing great.

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Who cares about an optimal rotation? I certainly don't, I want to play around with random monster spells and just screw around like the class seems to be designed for. What is locked behind the grind are interesting spells that can provide a new play style to mix up your rotation, not make it optimal. Blue mages who skip the grind have a very gimped spell book and are missing out on a large part of the class.

I find it funny that the whole idea of blue mage, learning monster skills by fighting them, is the worst part. I wish I could fight shiva solo and learn her spell 100% of the time. Let me play blue mage to learn these skills. its adorable that you think the only value these skills have is an optimal rotation. I find their value to be in the experimentation and varying play style. Its unfortunate that this side class not to be taken totally serious, requires a dedicated grind that will lock most players from every getting the full potential of the class.

I call you a white knight cause after reading all your posts you refuse to find any fault at all in SE and religiously defend the entire implementation. I enjoy the concept of blue mage and have had fun playing it before hitting 50. However I find the grind to learn the 50 skills totally whack and really ruins the class as many spells are going to unavailable to play around with.

but sure go ahead and blacklist me cause I disagree with you.

My complaint isn't that it's a low chance of learning, it's the fact you can't solo EX battle with a solo job.

Rotation, huh...
The best rotation I have so far as a BLU that works against everything is
[Prep Sequence]
Toad Oil -> Bristle
[Opening]
Off-guard -> Song of Torment -> [Flying Sardine:Peculiar Light] -> [Flying Sardine:Glass Dance] -> [Flying Sardine:Mountain Buster] -> [Flying Sardine:Eruption] -> Glower*6 ->
[Flying Sardine:Off-guard] -> Song of Torment -> Glower*3 -> [Flying Sardine:Eruption] -> Glower*6 ->
[Flying Sardine:Off-guard] -> [Flying Sardine:Peculiar Light] -> Song of Torment -> Glower -> [Flying Sardine:Mountain Buster] -> [Flying Sardine:Eruption] -> Glower*6 ->
And so on.

For long periods where you can prepare defenses for raid-wides, such as Shiva's and Leviathan's Transitions, you can throw up Mighty Guard and Diamondback. Drop Mighty Guard after the hit is soaked.