Any update on Gil for Crysta? [WOW Gold for Subscription Model in FFXIV]

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You seem to think I'm wrong. In the interest of not writing a post that is two pages long and everyone will ignore anyway, I chose to cut to the point.

It is a bad idea, it only benefits those wanting to cash out. It does not benefit the players, especially when there is no goldsink in the game. If the only goldsink is selling the gil back to SE via game credit, then SE has manufactured a loss that cost them nothing, but they can deduct from their taxes.

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They don't think you're wrong, they know you're wrong. Because with every post you keep showing more and more clearly you don't understand the system being discussed.

This system isn't about selling gil back to SE. Going to simplify this as much as I can for you.


Player A has gil. Player B wants gil.

Player A wants Crysta. Square Enix wants Money.

Result of this system in action:

Player A gets Crysta, Player B gets gil, Square Enix gets money.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

They don't think you're wrong, they know you're wrong. Because with every post you keep showing more and more clearly you don't understand the system being discussed.

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There is no system being discussed. There are "This is how EVE does it" and "This is how WoW does it" and nobody has proven that this would benefit FFXIV players, only that it would benefit SE to the detriment of players, specifically crafters. Please don't give SE any ideas that this would be acceptable, it would not.

There are no gold sinks in the game that would drain off gil to prevent inflation. You don't seem to get that. In theory there are hundreds of players sitting on a fortune from crafting, and the barrier to entry is extremely high. If someone wanted to max out their crafting through the marketboard, instead of using leves or beast quests, they could very likely do it with an unlimited amount of gil, and then in the end, they just do what the other rich crafters do, sell the gil made from crafting until there are too many people selling gil and no demand, because gil is useless for just about everything in the game.

I'll simplify this:

A) New player wants to max out their crafting in one day, so they drop $5000 in buying all the available gil from sellers (which is peanuts when people drop this kind of money on mobile games)
B) Seller has now maxed out their crafter and to keep on top of the market, buys out every reasonably priced item required to craft the most expensive and profitable items, so they are now the only person who can sell that item on that server
C) After they then recoup their initial investment by sitting on a mountain of gil they can sell back for crysta, whatever else they can buy with crysta they hock on an auction site for real money.

There can not be a cash-out option, there must be a way to sink the gil in the game. If you trade it back into crysta, it is cashed out, and then SE has to track it like it was money since it can be bought with money. It may be essentially "store credit that expires in 2 years", but it's still a liability for SE they have to track.

You may not like the point I'm making, but I'm asking you to consider that it would not be a simple thing that people are proposing. EVE PLEX is directly convertable into game cash in the same way WoW's is, and many games have copied this, and have undermined their game in doing so. It may have caused some of the RMT's to run for the hills, but it will just incentivize players to run their own bots to sell gil back to SE into Crysta as long as there are players buying. There's not enough Gil-sinking in the game to drain off the movement of hoarded gil going back to 1.0 because there is nothing you can buy from NPC merchants that would ever drain gil fast enough. In theory the housing was supposed to take care of this, but crafters could very well be sitting on enough gil to buy multiple wards by funneling gil to their FC members through the FC.

Without a way to remove gil completely from the game, it will only lead to inflation and monopolization of the marketboard by those who already have a mountain of gil.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

There is no system being discussed.

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Thread: Any update on Gil for Crysta? [WOW Gold for Subscription Model in FFXIV]


It's literally a thread requesting for WoW's system to be in FF14.

More specifically, a follow-up to that request.

So basically anyone who crafts never has to pay a sub ever again and everyone else has to pay their subs? That can't be right...

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337

if they handled it like in WoW, where the prices for the token to player transactions werent set by the players, instead by demand. then why not add this to the game?

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They need to add this!

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

There can not be a cash-out option, there must be a way to sink the gil in the game. If you trade it back into crysta, it is cashed out, and then SE has to track it like it was money since it can be bought with money. It may be essentially "store credit that expires in 2 years", but it's still a liability for SE they have to track.

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That's not how that works. There is no cash out option. You're not trading gil for crysta directly. Someone is still paying real money for it, just not you. A token is basically just someone saying "I'll give you a million gil if you pay my sub next month."


Also, your proposed MB buyout scenario is completely insane. It falls into the category of 'theoretically possible, but why on earth would anyone ever actually do that?' What is the end goal in there? Sit on piles of gil? Solved the minute you sell the tokens. Sell crysta items online? Why not just buy crysta directly for (presumably) cheaper than the cost of a token? Wreck the economy for fun? You could do that today if you bought a few hundred mil from RMT. I just don't see those things ever happening together like that.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

So basically anyone who crafts never has to pay a sub ever again and everyone else has to pay their subs? That can't be right...

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No one has to do anything. It's just an option. You could completely ignore it and probably never notice it at all.

It gives people with real money to spare an alternative to shady RMTs, and it gives the people sitting on piles of gil something else to spend it on if they want. Win-win for all involved, and invisible to those who aren't.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

No one has to do anything. It's just an option. You could completely ignore it and probably never notice it at all.

It gives people with real money to spare an alternative to shady RMTs, and it gives the people sitting on piles of gil something else to spend it on if they want. Win-win for all involved, and invisible to those who aren't.

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Yeah but then the developers are letting whales buy so much gil they could flood servers and destroy economies. The gil that bots and RMTs have can legitimately be removed because of terms of service.
Square Enix are happy with players sitting on piles of gil as long as they continue paying subscription costs.....

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

No one has to do anything. It's just an option. You could completely ignore it and probably never notice it at all.

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Except that's not how this situation works, is it. Because the ONLY way to properly benefit from this system is to take up crafting. The disparity between money made by crafting, and by utilising battle jobs is too large for a system like this to be seen as anything but crafters gaming the system. There are already people that feel this way about housing, and allowing those who control the markets to also basically play the game for free forever seems like the only result of this system.

The devs are trying to push a casual approach to this game, with mentalities like "You can play any job you like" and "You shouldn't have to be an omnicrafter" and "You can take breaks and play for short periods of time", and a feature like this would do the exact opposite.

Nobody seems to have said this yet, so I will: Just because something is in World of Warcraft, and even if something works well in World of Warcraft, does not mean it will work well in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You seem to think I'm wrong. In the interest of not writing a post that is two pages long and everyone will ignore anyway, I chose to cut to the point.

It is a bad idea, it only benefits those wanting to cash out. It does not benefit the players, especially when there is no goldsink in the game. If the only goldsink is selling the gil back to SE via game credit, then SE has manufactured a loss that cost them nothing, but they can deduct from their taxes.

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It's not about what I think, it's about you not reading anything we're writing, you keep saying people are selling gil to SE when now 5 times we have explained you the gil is not disappearing nor being generated so there's no cashing out. Gil goes from player A to player B, money goes from player B to player A, no gil is generated, no currency is generated, no money is lost, SE takes the real life money and converts it to crysta for player A. SO the end result is player A ends up with crysta or sub, player B ends up with player A's gil, SE ends up with the $$$ and a guarantee that the money will be spent on the game because its in crysta/sub form.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

Yeah but then the developers are letting whales buy so much gil they could flood servers and destroy economies. The gil that bots and RMTs have can legitimately be removed because of terms of service.
Square Enix are happy with players sitting on piles of gil as long as they continue paying subscription costs.....

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The gil is supposed to be in the economy, I don't know how you guys can see people hoarding millions of gil as the natural state of the economy, a stagnant market isn't natural at all. What destroys the economy is bot generated gil because bots can farm raw money faster than any player can and it counters gil sinks, but most player gil isn't even raw, it comes from the market itself and as such it's already subject to sinks.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Except that's not how this situation works, is it. Because the ONLY way to properly benefit from this system is to take up crafting. The disparity between money made by crafting, and by utilising battle jobs is too large for a system like this to be seen as anything but crafters gaming the system. There are already people that feel this way about housing, and allowing those who control the markets to also basically play the game for free forever seems like the only result of this system.

The devs are trying to push a casual approach to this game, with mentalities like "You can play any job you like" and "You shouldn't have to be an omnicrafter" and "You can take breaks and play for short periods of time", and a feature like this would do the exact opposite.

Nobody seems to have said this yet, so I will: Just because something is in World of Warcraft, and even if something works well in World of Warcraft, does not mean it will work well in FFXIV.

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You talk as if crafting is some exclusive game mode that only a few can do, you just have to be level 10 to learn crafting. A system like this would hopefully encourage more people to participate in the economy, as people would have more money to spend and other people would have a big incentive to make money.

You don't need to spend a lot of time in the game to craft, even end game crafts are only done within 1-2 mins.