selling wins

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You do realize you're comparing a free tool which displays damage numbers and calls out mechanics with buying content clears for hundreds of dollars; over a thousand if it's Ultimate, yes? .

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The point of the comparison was how attitudes of a playerbase can change from "it's against TOS" to "we're ok with it." It's not trying to compare the two in harm; the way player attitudes change about something is that it starts top down. There's a certain saturation point when it becomes unable to be contained, and that varies based on a lot of things. But the point is that it's never really a only 1% issue; the 1% filters down.

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Even if people do report advertisements in PF, literally nothing will happen because SE's own policies prevent them from enforcing anything. You could sit with PF open for an entire week, reporting the same few people with advertisements where it's obvious real money is being traded and nothing will happen to those players. In fact, I reported someone on my server who is a known bot, and very obviously brought his bot alts into Eureka. Still botting away. SE does nothing. That contributes to general apathy on the subject

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This isn't "SE will do nothing." Way, way too many raiders here don't see any harm in doing it at all. This is the difference. If you're angry at SE that's cool, they deserve the blame. But please, be angry at the sellers too. Nothing is forcing sellers to sell runs in this game; they choose to do it for their own gain. there's no ethical need to sell clears in this game.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The point of the comparison was how attitudes of a playerbase can change from "it's against TOS" to "we're ok with it." It's not trying to compare the two in harm; the way player attitudes change about something is that it starts top down.

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That attitude changes because initial perceptions of what ACT did were inaccurate. Regardless, people may have more indifference towards selling runs, but it will never become widespread. Unlike parsers, you need both players with enough skill to consistently kill Savage and Ultimate content, and a large enough pool of people willing to spend hundreds of dollars on it. You simply aren't going to see thousands of people spending that kind of money on clears, especially in a game where gear becomes irrelevant every six months.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Unlike parsers, you need both players with enough skill to consistently kill Savage and Ultimate content, and a large enough pool of people willing to spend hundreds of dollars on it.

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Not that innaccurate, considering how people use triggers. I'm wondering if the recent change to show ability names in pvp is a result of people using act triggers or a similar program to what they used with titan's gaols in ultimate. There's also the big grey area that exists in general due to parsers as a gateway to client modification culture; nude mods, reshade, dat hacking ability names, etc.

As for the selling..Bourne, you know you are an advocate of the game stepping up its difficulty some in general, being perceived as being too easy. That easiness in part helps keep selling runs down, because there's not any point where required content is too hard for players to beat, or too time consuming. Mercing in general would be a direct response to the things you want implemented in game, and its important that the culture isn't primed or too willing to deal with it. And with rl money there's a big incentive to get people to do it.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Not that innaccurate, considering how people use triggers. I'm wondering if the recent change to show ability names in pvp is a result of people using act triggers or a similar program to what they used with titan's gaols in ultimate. There's also the big grey area that exists in general due to parsers as a gateway to client modification culture; nude mods, reshade, dat hacking ability names, etc.

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I've mostly agreed with you, but how in the world is reshade at all like the other programs? All it does is add color filters.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I've mostly agreed with you, but how in the world is reshade at all like the other programs? All it does is add color filters.

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i was just thinking of examples of all the kinds of third party stuff. Benign stuff gets people used to the idea of modding the client overall. You can strike that one from the list if it bugs you, my point is more there's a pretty big gray zone of stuff on top of benign uses.

I'm not really a fan of mod culture in general though, thats a bias. I kind of associate it with knockoff culture; back in the arcade days, they had "modded" version of games like SF2, so its a lot earlier than you think.

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Originally Posted by Remyogic

Calling them "exactly the same" is willful ignorance.

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Breaking the rules are breaking the rules. Much as you break the law stealing a gum pack for 1 dollar vs someone who steals stuff worth 1000 dollars. Whats so hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

There's also the big grey area that exists in general due to parsers as a gateway to client modification culture; nude mods, reshade, dat hacking ability names, etc.

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Thanks Obama

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Thanks Obama

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????

Great comeback!

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Not that innaccurate, considering how people use triggers. I'm wondering if the recent change to show ability names in pvp is a result of people using act triggers or a similar program to what they used with titan's gaols in ultimate. There's also the big grey area that exists in general due to parsers as a gateway to client modification culture; nude mods, reshade, dat hacking ability names, etc.

As for the selling..Bourne, you know you are an advocate of the game stepping up its difficulty some in general, being perceived as being too easy. That easiness in part helps keep selling runs down, because there's not any point where required content is too hard for players to beat, or too time consuming. Mercing in general would be a direct response to the things you want implemented in game, and its important that the culture isn't primed or too willing to deal with it. And with rl money there's a big incentive to get people to do it.

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Slippery slope is a faulty thought process. Just because one thing happens doesnt lead an inevitable downhill slide into immorality and chaos. They are treated differently just like robbing a bank and stealing a stick of gum are treated differently. There are different punishments that match the crime. No one gets a life sentence for a stick of gum. You will get long hard years for bank robbery. Breaking the 'law' or the 'ToS' in this case isnt just a binary yes/no get banned scrub! Everything has shades. You get a warning for verbal harrassement from a GM. You dont get insta banned because you broke the sacred ToS. But if you are caught blatantly hacking or breaking the game in some dramatic way, you wont get such a light touch.

Turning a blind eye to a parser is not the same thing as condoning RMT via content clears any more than stealing a stick of gum wont get you the same moral outrage or prison sentence as robbing a bank. Just because its 'illegal' doesnt make them equal infractions and a kid that stole a piece of gum isnt somehow normalizing bank robbers, so you can forget your 'gateway drug' argument where somehow parsers lead to a dystopia future where everyone RMTs.

Literally all of your arguments are either factually wrong (most raiders RMT lawlz), based on complete fallacies of logic (slippery slope. If the community accepts ACT we end up in a dystopian NudeMod RMT future), or rely on semantics (all breeches of ToS are equal in severity because they are all equally 'illegal').

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

????

Great comeback!

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It makes about as much sense as linking parser usage to nude mods and dat hacking tbh.

There are are some slippery slopes that are reasonable assumptions, but this is just beyond comical.