Add Blue Mages Already

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Or, because a blue mage would be a caster/melee hybrid like Red, it has weaponskill for aggro and spells for DPS, with some instant cast spells (Just like all the gcds other tanks have) as additional aggro and defensive abilities.

There's no reason why that couldn't work.

Have it keep all the same stats as the other tanks incl. Strength, explain it as blue magic not being the casters own aether but the gathered aether of aggrod enemies.
Have the iconic blue magic spells utilise a job gauge instead of MP.
Sorted.

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Have you ever played a tank class? There are things called combos with 0 CD- rdm abilities are all CD

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

"Blue mages have used other weapons, but no other jobs have used dual swords."


"A job that wields dual swords, casts elemental magic, and debuffing spells, NOT being a blue mage... would be very, very odd, and a completely missed opportunity considering people want a blue mage."

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You want dual swords go be Kiriti in SAO

We already have a NIN who uses dual swords

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

I’d play a BLU tank, sounds refreshing, let me hold enmity with spells!

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Yup while you lose agro while spending 4 seconds casting a spell.....

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

You want dual swords go be Kiriti in SAO

We already have a NIN who uses dual swords

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Daggers, long daggers, depending on the skin, NIN weapons range from dagger to barely a short sword. There's also the way they hold their weapons as well. Dual swords, done right, sounds pretty fun to me. We could also use another full physical tank like WAR.

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Yup while you lose agro while spending 4 seconds casting a spell.....

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Unmend and Unleash are spells...

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Yup while you lose agro while spending 4 seconds casting a spell.....

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The longest spell in this game besides a hardcast Raise is 3.5 seconds, and -- more importantly -- over a third of all offensive spells used by non-turret casters are instant casts...

So why would that be an issue a BLU would face, tank or otherwise? Why wouldn't it simply be all instant casts, or, on the rare case, a channel as per a (mobile) Flamethrower?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Could also explain it being a mage in heavy armour and not requiring cast times, because it\\'s magitek and not incantations and whatnot.

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If we are going to have a mage tank, I would prefer one without the Heavy armor, I would want it’s defense to come from its magic.

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Originally Posted by Usho

If you\\'re tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it\\'s meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.
GG.

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Aside from the fact that there are such things as instant cast spells, we can look to the level 64 PLD trait Divine Magic Mastery:

Halves MP cost for all spells while preventing casting interruptions via damage taken.

Something like that would most likely be a core BLU trait.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Cause it won't. We had this debate about SAM pre-SB remember? Blu is a MAGE. Look at FF history and lore. BLU was never made for the tanking role despite having defensive and restorative spells, it's a CASTER.

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What Lore? I don't recall any FF in the main number series (ie: not tatics) outside of 11 actually setting up lore for Blu outside of it being a job that learns monsters abilities and can be filled in as any role.

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Originally Posted by Usho

If you're tanking a large group of mobs, do you think they are gonna just give you time to cast your spells while you attempt to hold aggro? Haha No. Your spells will get interrupted constantly and not even surecast will be enough with it's meh 30 sec CD for a 5 sec duration.

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Why would they give BLU long cast times? If you're going by FF11 standards a good portion of their physical spells are actually less than a second. A good deal of their defensive spells are less than a second. There are also traits in the game obtained either by leveling or on gear, both in FF11 and 14 that prevent spellcasting interruptions.

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Originally Posted by Usho

You can try to justify it being a tank all you want guys, but the reality is it's not and it won't. Just as much as you want Dancer to be a healer, it won't. But you can live in denial if you want. Remember the SAM tank debates? People complained and wanted it to be a tank. Guess what? It's a MELEE DPS. SAMs wear light/not so heavy armor and have some tankish kind of skills but its not a tank is it? DRK is a given as its a DPS but they probably wanted it to be a tank since Cecil's DRK in FFIV was more so a tank, while in FFXI they were a DPS job.

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No one cares what type of armor they use. Rune Fencer in FF11 (the same FF you base BLU off of) uses light weight armor as well, it actually shares it's non Job specific gear with BLU and it's one of the go - to tanks, It also has to rotate Phalanx, Crusade, Regens, and Temper up all of which take at least 3 seconds to cast. The same can be said about ninja as it has been a tanking power house since day one in 11 who had to use long casting times to maintain hate and defend itself, now it's a DPS in 14. Different games have different roles for each of the jobs. Cecil's DRK in FF4 being a tank? You mean the tank that kills itself to do AOE damage? Yeah no. If anything SE took the Tank design of Rune Fencer from FF11 and slapped Dark Knight's Aesthetics all over it. A tank whoms primary weapon is a 2-handed sword and who focuses on magical defense.
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Rune_Fencer

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Originally Posted by Usho

BLU is a Mage. Mages make for terrible tanks, especially in this game. That is the reality.
FFXI was bit more versatile since their was no real exact balance with the jobs, but even in FFXI BLU was never really tank material and most of time, ppl brought in blu for procs and their chain bursts. But in FFXIV, the game is plagued by the trinity system, there's no "subjobs" and learning blu spells in this game for sure won't be as interesting as in FFXI and FFV. And getting interrupted while trying to cast a spell, while also trying to hold onto aggro is a bad decision and it will be especially bad for newbies.

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Mages make for terrible tanks because they've all been designed this way currently in 14, this is reality. Just like how all jobs that were not design with the ability to main tank in 14 will die in a single tank buster in just about any raid. This is reality and your logic is flawed. Why? Because they could always design and implement a mage that can tank.

Sounds like you only played BLU during the abyessa era. As no one really did skill chains at the time of Blue mages release and nothing "proct" for at least 3-5 years later when Abyessa was released. During it's initial release the good thing that stood out about Blu was it's ability to chain head butt back to back and keep a mob stunned as well as being able to easily do a small burst of damage to enemies with extremely low defense that also drained their MP dry. This is why you'll never be able to find any end game content that took BLU to anything outside of instance events for that period (Limbus, Dynamis, Assaults, Salvage), where it could at this point in time Tank, Back Up heal, Mediocre DPS. In anything else they were forced to SA(force crit) cannonballs, which other well-geared and knowledgeable players destroyed them. However as they've given it more spells it's ability to tank, dps, and heal have also gone up with it eventually making it able to replace any role in the party assuming the BLU was geared for said role and had spells for said role.

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Originally Posted by Usho

Blu has always been pure melee caster dps, and just like with SAM, if you think it will be a tank, then you'll be proven wrong, again.

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Then why can it both heal and tank along side the the other roles you just mentioned in almost every incarnation of the job? Tanking mainly being relevant for FF11 since there was no way to really "tank" other than the flimsy and random cover skill in any other FF? Rather it be a tank or not is up in the air. But your reasoning for it not being able to be such is flimsy at best.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

This game pigeon holes all tanks into heavy armor. As a side note, if Blue Mage were a tank in caster gear, they would potentially be behind in gearing compared to existing tanks because then they'd have to compete with the 3 other casters for gear drops in content.

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And this is the only valid point as to why BLU wouldn't be a tank in 14, and is more based around what lengths they'd be willing to go to actually make it into a tank. Rather than "if they can"

Imagine having blue mage in any raid type content compared to other tanks. What would that blue mage have to be to actually tank? I feel it would need to specialize so heavily on one aspect of being a blue mage that it would lose out on actually being a blue mage.

I think the best option is a dps blue mage with an extensive utility kit. He isn't a tank but he has an ability that lets him tank for 20 seconds. He's not a healer but he has some potent heals he can throw out in a pinch. Trying to focus something as versatile as a blue mage into one small part of what it should be wouldnt do the class justice.

I agree that blue mage should be a tank. It fits with a lot of thematic things for Blue mage. Most specifically the type of blue mage (or enemy skill materia) where you have to be hit to learn the ability. Sure, they probably won't do it to where you learn the ability that way, because that just doesn't fit in FFXIV, but I'm fine with that. Blue mage is also considered a tank in the Final Fantasy Explorers. Though it could also become a healer pretty well and an okay DPS. All and all though, Blue mage is my favorite class, I bring any character that is even somewhat a blue mage everywhere I can. So I'll play it no matter what they turn it into.