When dps dont aoe should they just get kicked from the start?

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Originally Posted by Avatre

That's the thing, different people feel using AoE after certain numbers of enemies is reached will always be different.

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... that can be mathed out. There is nothing to "feel" here.

For a RDM, 3x100 = 300. That's higher than most GCD spells you have, so at 3 enemies, you want to use Scatter instead of Jolt or Impact. After that, you want to rotate Veraero/Verthunder, as both are 300 as well but give 11 total Mana, which is higher than the 6 you get from a regular scatter. The finicky bit starts when you fully optimize Mana as well.

As for melee combo vs moulinet...
Melee combo as such is 970 Potency for 80 Mana over 4,5 seconds. Add Holy/Flare for 1520 total over 7 seconds.
Potency per Mana: 19.
Potency per Second: 217.1

Moulinet is 600 potency for 30 Mana over 1,5 seconds.
Potency per Mana: 20.
Potency per Second: 400

3 enemies -> E-Moulinet wins in every aspect.

We can now use that calc to see whether Verstone/Verfire procs should be used or not.
We have the potency per Mana calc'd above, but that assumes double Mana usage. Halve it, and you can see how much one point of black/white Mana is worth. It's 10 for moulinet on 3 mobs. Verstone/Verfire are 270 potency and grant 9 Mana each. As such, they seem on par with Scatter - But wait! Scatter can proc enhanced scatter for 16 Mana. You don't even need to calc the exact effect of that to realize Scatter is better, because the worst case already puts it on par.

-> Verstone/Verfire Procs are best left unused in packs of 3.

Not gonna lie, as a tank sometimes I appreciate single target kills for extremely big pulls, even if not right away after a bit of AOE it still is helpful. I can only heavy mitigate for so long. After a few cooldowns if in large part all the mobs are still alive but low health, there has been a time or two I have died either from lack of large heals or i just didnt have any cooldowns left. Can't really blame the healer though with large pulls everyone is taking a risk. Realistically AOE is a time saver but at some point you have to switch to single targets to kill a few if its an extremely large pull and none of the mobs are dead yet after cooldowns are expiring.

The only time I kick from dungeons is if its an obvious script bot, lagging way to much to be of any use, or offline. Dungeons are so boring and faceroll but that doesn't entitle anyone to a speedrun unless they are playing with likeminded people. You go through roulette expecting a speedrun, you still gonna get what you get.

I suppose I am a bit of a kick extremist in theory, but not in practice.

If a member of your duty is playing egregiously poorly, to the point of halting your run, I would suggest bringing it up gently.

Should they act the Mickey or continue on with their really bad (not average - average people can stay) play, go ahead and initiate a vote kick.

If it passes, cool. If not, that sucks.

If you never AOE, then you suck. I don't really care how you try and dress it up, you simply are not performing your job role. Heck, you're not even making an attempt at it. There are no exceptions to this. Every single job has an AoE skill that they can, and should, make use of. The main argument I hear for people not using them is the 'big numbers' they get on their single target skills, completely oblivious to the fact that 2000 x 6 is better than 1 x 6000.

I guess not everyone got a passing grade in elementary maths.

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Originally Posted by Raven_Darkstar

If the community as a whole stopped giving players like this a pass (yes, I'm guilty of it too), maybe our dfs would be more pleasant. Or at least not so full of aggravation.

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Precisely. Accountability is key, most of all from ourselves. If we all practiced a decent level of self-accountability, DF would be a much nicer place. Keep yourself in check and the chances of someone else feeling they need to do it are greatly diminished.

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Originally Posted by Raven_Darkstar

Mission accomplished I guess, I no longer feel rusty on healer lol. The point is this, however; peyton's right. DPS not aoeing is a big problem, and to me? Stinks of lazy way more than it does ignorant. If the community as a whole stopped giving players like this a pass (yes, I'm guilty of it too), maybe our dfs would be more pleasant. Or at least not so full of aggravation.

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thisthisthisthis

The reason we had people crying that RM was too hard for story mode is because we have so many people facerolling through dungeons. Theres people in this thread defending no aoe in a dungeon. Lordy.

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Originally Posted by Kakiko

I will say that I'd 100% hate being kicked because I wasn't using AoE. At least tell me what you prefer and I'll do my best to accommodate that. Just don't wantonly kick me because I'm playing a way you don't like when I have no idea what you like.

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assuming BLM is the only class you've got so far, you're level 52. With the exception of RDM/SAM, if you haven’t used a jump pot you should know your basic dps rotation and your AoE rotation at lv50. Your party shouldn’t have to tell you to push fire 3.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Lol everyone just play SMN end of argument no debate about tp or how no aoe is causing hour long dungeons (how some of u act) just

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Think im just gona make a macro so I dont have to type it all the time in the mist of a pull it can work. I remember I was in level 65 dungeon, and I was doing the big pulls in there as usual and notice the monk wasnt doing any aoe. Well I didnt want to spend extra time in the dungeon so when i pulled everything before second boss I already had it typed up for him to use rockbreaker and it actually worked. And I feel like alot more people aoe , than not so I dont think everyone has to go summouner other jobs can do plenty of aoe dps. You shouldnt have to make a pf just to do something that should be an in an out form of content

When you consider the leaving penalty is 30 minutes, and if you have tier-9 level DPS that could make the dungeon last almost an hour or more. You can do the math which path ends up better for a tank/healer since they are always in-demand.

So it's always best to come equipped and attempt to play your best. No one is asking for top-tier DPS, just a good standard effort is better than 70% of the DF population. If you want to netflix and play around idling or single targeting all-day, there isn't a place for you in this game doing content with others.

Given the length of DPS queues I'm surprised that DPS play lazily and risk getting kicked in the first place. I mean they can be replaced in a heartbeat so why risk it. Do your job and do it well and people will consider you a pleasure to party with.

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Originally Posted by technole

If you want to netflix and play around idling or single targeting all-day, there isn't a place for you in this game doing content with others.

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My feelings on it are if you want to watch Netflix, chat with someone, or engage in whatever external distraction while you are hanging out in town, solo grinding stuff, doing leves, hunt logs and the like then go ahead.

But if you aren't going to actually play the game, then please don't queue and expect me to play for myself and for you as well.