Watching a video is a poor substitute for actually doing it for quite a lot of people. Usually better than going in blind, but it doesn't translate to immedaite success.
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09-13-2017, 06:02 AMTridus
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09-13-2017, 06:13 AMTaikaYou are aware that those learning parties don't just magically appear out of thin air, right? :) I have only been doing Savage in PF for 3 weeks, but every week I've done learning / clear parties in addition to or instead of weekly loot farm. I haven't had much trouble finding people for any floor. The people who want to learn just need to get the parties together (and sometimes it helps to advertise them in your FC/LS/by shouting in RR in addition to the party finder).Quote:
Originally Posted by Okamimaru
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09-13-2017, 07:17 AMKacho_NachoAbsolutely true, Tera Luna.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraluna
The online gaming community has changed for the worse.
It used to be about getting together and learning and overcoming the challenges together. There was this incredible feeling of being in this new land. You knew the only way you were going to make it was to make friends, and when did, you took your time and learned to work with others as a team. When you overcame each obstacle, everyone celebrated because it wasn't just a personal victory. It was a victory for each and every one of your friends.
Now, it's all about efficiency and people treat the game like it is some pro sports event. Gone is the camaraderie of the earlier generation. Now, you have to be perfect or you are out, even as a beginner. As you wrote earlier, no one wants to take the time to teach or even build relationships. They just want to be number one on the parsers. "Second place is the first loser" is the slogan of the new gamers.
I just have to shake my head. It's xenogenesis. The children are not like the parents and I feel it's a social phenomena which will ultimately kill the MMORPG genre. -
09-13-2017, 08:54 AMSebazyDon't you think that's equal parts new game syndrome and rose tinted glasses making those memories seem super awesome?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho
I really can't stress enough that some of the things I saw done in FFXI were far and beyond anything I've ever seen in XIV.
Griefing raid bosses, training and taking smaller cash cow NMs, stealing immensely valuable items from 'friends'. That game had it all.
When the community was behaving, it was great. But when it wasn't, it could get unbelievably toxic.
I'll gladly take a bunch of '95 percentile or kick' PFs over that nonsense thanks =( -
09-13-2017, 02:10 PMera1Ne
Most of the time this community is great imo and if people have trouble making an learning party for v1-4, then just take your time and start one yourself. I was raiding from day 1 this tier, but i started late in the past and now friends of mine, made a new static together. It works, if you take your time and search. You can literally ask everywhere, your fc, your ls, normal chat or in forums/on websites. On the chaos datacenter you can find training, kill and weekly partys for every raid tier. Especially for v1-3 and v1-2 are clearable with a complete random group, if again you take your time. Of course this will be different from data to datacenter.
I get searching can be frustrating, but at the end of the day, everyone has a choice to do content with the people he likes/wants. Additionally, you shouldn't blame those who killed v2 for example, searching for an weekly kill instead of an training group, since they just want their loot. There is nothing wrong with that. You want your training group, demand patients and so on, while they want their loot asap for the week. Different goals, different people. Take me as an example. While i am very patient and willing to help healers or others, outside or in mentor roulette, when i join an training party or do casual content, i demand from an farm group in ex/savage or even kill groups an lesser extend, that those guys understand their class and the fight (or at least are willing to listen and give their best). They also should be able to have some amount of raid awarness. I don't think their is anything wrong with that.
Something we haven't talked about yet is imo the interplay between the healers, which is a bit more complex than the dd working together in my opinion. Of course you can align your cooldowns an such as an dd to do the best raid dmg, but imo healers have to work together a bit more. Especially, if you want to play the most efficient way and have both healers attack and heal together. This demands for instance communication and you need to have the same mindset as the other healer for it to work best. This could be another problem, because not every healer has the same mindset and depending if you are willing to deal with an different kind of healer, you have to search longer or less long. This could result in statics searching for healers a while longer, aswell. -
09-13-2017, 04:38 PMQT_MelonI stated it before but I'll state it again, if you want a learning party, start one. Learning parties don't magically appear from people already working on other content. Learning parties generally appear because someone wants to learn. This mentality about complaining about the lack of them and not creating them is starting to become the PVP naggers that try to harass people to go healer (if they want a healer in PVP, queue as one).Quote:
Originally Posted by Okamimaru
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09-13-2017, 06:12 PMLastelliI totally agree. Also I see plenty of "learning party, be patient please" in pf so I'm not sure what these guys are even talking about. Straw man arguments everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
Of course we also have "high dps party 90+ percentile" and "skip soar or disband", nothing wrong with it. PF is there to recruit people with a common goal. If you have a different goal, don't join or start your own pf.. It's as simple as that. -
09-13-2017, 07:21 PMTeralunaStraw man eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastelli
Ok no need for the post topic then as everything's apparently ok. -
09-13-2017, 08:59 PMSebazy
Straw man arguments are probably the wrong way to put it.
Rather I think it's a case of MMO's trying to confirm to modern game design and all the hand holding that entails but not quite getting there yet.
Compare starting out in something like Everquest or FFXI vs what we have now in FFXIV:
In both EQ and FFXI, both games would punish you hard the moment you set foot outside your starting town for the first time. I can still vividly remember having to walk backwards memorising torch positions in pitch black tunnels trying to get between Everfrost and Qeynos through Blackburrow thanks to the combination of complete darkness and no night vision. FFXI wasn't much kinder with powerful enemies frequently pathing through low level spots. Even at the original level cap you needed to keep your wits around you.
Whilst it's pretty fair to say that neither game could succeed in it's original state now (You only have to look at how FFXI has had to change to see that), both games did a 'good' job of weeding out the delicate little flowers from the game populace right from the get go. By comparison, FFXIV holds their hand and gently guides them forward right up until they hit the point of Extreme and Savage content, where it unceremoniously dumps them on the floor and leaves them to it.
Early ARR got it bang on with the likes of Titan HM and even Amdapor Keep requiring a decent difficulty curve leading into Coil. Omega is an improvement over HW tho, with the Savage turns having a decent difficulty curve as you progress. Hopefully Super Savage continues that trend <3 -
09-13-2017, 09:24 PMLevianBelieve me, I remember. I had a much longer post that touched on a lot more, but the forum is currently limiting me to 1k characters a post and I had to cut it down to 1/6 the content while still trying to grt at the heart of the matter (for me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Taika