SCH adlo and succor

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Originally Posted by technole

Level 70 Cure 1 600MP, Cure 2 1200MP vs Cure3 2280. There is little reason to spam a Tier 2 heal, when regen is the best course for MP efficiency unless there is that much of a heal issue. But that was why the media tour build White Mage was terrible to proc lilies, it was encouraging a completely inefficient method for procs.

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Cure is more MP efficient but not more GCD efficient. When I pre-cast on a tank to bring their HP up after a tank buster, I sure don't use dinky old Cure. The term "MP efficiency" isn't even in the WHM vocabulary. Obviously, HOTs are awesome. But sometimes you do have to direct heal (e.g., when tank is getting hit by a dozen mobs at once) and I really don't see how anyone can peg WHM as anything other than a major outlier in this regard. You can say 'L2P' until you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that WHM doesn't really need to L2P, and pointing to this disparity is a valid criticism.

I'm really surprised when I read that sch has mana issues...whenever I use SCH for something I spend most of the time dpsing. I even use miasma 2 for ED weaving and spam it in dungeons after using bane and I've never had any mp issue whatsoever. You can find tons of vids on YouTube of savage clears where sch dps whenever they don't have to heal and hava no mp issue whatsoever.

Yeah, SCH doesn't have MP issues. The points that Crein and I have mentioned is really the reason why. If you aren't living off Aetherflow aggressiveness and all the free healing that the kit offers, you aren't playing the job to it's potential. If that pink icon isn't on cool down most of the time you better have a good reason why. The Scholar only denies themselves more free healing the longer they let it sit there.

I've also not had any issue in Savage minimum ilevel progression since week one. I even mentioned how many times you'll end up using Succor in O4S ExDeath and Neo, and it won't be an issue because of all the MP you'll generate using Aetherflow skills quite often for mechanics.

Just some illogical posters that don't do any savage content like to come out and say "well you have another healer". Scholar free healing is the reason why the other healer doesn't have a large burden in raiding. You aren't being a good raid healer if you are making your partner do all the work, it's about being complimentary. Indom and Whispering Dawn have always been the bread-and-butter.

Well whether someone thinks sch has mana issues or not one fact remains; its mana efficiency is very noticeably lower than whm and ast. So either sch is due some buffs or ast and whm are due some nerfs.

And a disclaimer before anyone gets any ideas: I still main sch and still think it is still viable, but presently sch demands a much more careful playstyle than whm and ast. There is definitely some mana efficiency imbalance among the three healers.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well whether someone thinks sch has mana issues or not one fact remains; its mana efficiency is very noticeably lower than whm and ast. So either sch is due some buffs or ast and whm are due some nerfs

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Actually whm is the only one with superior mana efficiency, mainly thanks to thin air. Don't forget that a significant amount of sch hps comes from eos for free. And still, whm infinite mp wasn't enough to make it meta. At the end of the day, you only need enough mp to "always be casting". Anything more than that is useless. And sch has enough mp to do that and also res a couple of times with no risk of running oom.

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Originally Posted by technole

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To be honnest, I think it's pointless to continue by that point.

You keep derailling into everything just to hammer your "u bad healer !" nail, it's pointless. You use out of context indirect quote it the complete opposite meaning and will validate some random dungeon playing guy to say in the next second that every you don't like just doesn't do raid as healer. But seriously, it grounding the number of people that just come here to tell everyone they don't know how to play just because it feel good for their ego.

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Originally Posted by technole

Snip.

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Let's assume for a second personal experience actually matters on the subject and that everyone has the exact same playing experience.
That would mean that all AST should be glued to Noct Sect because 1 person was able to solo heal O4S and that all ASTs should be as good as that person. Yeah, that seems 100% fair and reasonable.

Back in reality, we have issues because
A) People are still learning the class. The changes in SB made SCH play completely differently than it was in HW so people are still getting used to the changes, which have been fairly jarring to say the least.
B) Not everyone plays the same way. Bad Tanks that don't pop CDs, people that eat floor paint for breakfast, lunch and dinner, etc all mean that, even with SCH's more liberal use of Aetherflow abilities, you still only have 3 answers ever 45 seconds to those issues (outside Dissipation use). This is in the outright best case scenario if you haven't used skills like Bane or Miasma2+ED weaves to use up stacks prior to shit hitting the fan. SCH is discouraged to use their GCD abilities to heal because they cost an arm and a leg to do or are the lackluster heal of Physick.
C) Fairy abilities are clunky. Even with macros, the fairy just absolutely insists on finishing whatever it is doing before doing as you command and it makes the job just that much more difficult to play perfectly because you have to account for the stupidity of its AI on top of mechanics.

I honestly spam succor more often than I need to and I still never run out of mana unless I need to res multiple people and forget to lucid dreaming.

Indom + Succor = 800 pot for 2280 mana + 1 GCD's (plus whatever fairy gives you)

Medica + assize + medica = 900 pot for 3360 mana + 2 GCD's

Which one would you honestly rather prefer?

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

I honestly spam succor more often than I need to and I still never run out of mana unless I need to res multiple people and forget to lucid dreaming.

Indom + Succor = 800 pot for 2280 mana + 1 GCD's (plus whatever fairy gives you)

Medica + assize + medica = 900 pot for 3360 mana + 2 GCD's

Which one would you honestly rather prefer?

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And more of the same.

It's indo being overtuned that you're talking about here, not succors being fine. And it's either one or the other, especially for SCH and WHM, it's both of them. Unless you're in dungeon and any of that matters.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

And more of the same.

It's indo being overtuned that you're talking about here, not succors being fine. And it's either one or the other, especially for SCH and WHM, it's both of them. Unless you're in dungeon and any of that matters.

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It's not "overtuned"...Indo, lustrate, and Excog are balanced like that on purpose to compensate for succor/adlo. Lustrate is a 600 pot oGCD on a 1s cooldown...

But honestly I would fully support lowering succor's mana cost as long as the WHM's don't complain about their viability in raids.