How are Tanks holding up from PLD WAR DRK

I kind of feel like SE wants to lock us in our Tank stance. While we can occasionally change to our dps stance do deal some damage it's always a hassle since DPS seem to generate alot more enmity now which forces us back into our tank stance in dungeons.
By the time I have enough aggro, and used up my gauge to switch to deliverence and THEN build the gauge back up the boss is usally already dead. :|

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Yes, I feel squishier than before and aggro is a little harder to maintain but it feels the same as when HW first came out and the scaling of power vs. content got reset...

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Exactly, relinking this. This point in HW, Alwaysreap & even ARF felt much the same. So people shouldn't be real discouraged, too soon.

Regarding Bloodspiller/Quietus,

I do hope they think of someway to compensate for the GCD push and consequential MP punish. oGCD would be fine, but I'd kind of like to see something more creative because BS/Q being on GCD helps mask the 1 > 2 > 3 monotony of the SE combo.

like Q/BS could reduce the MP cost of next spell/ability, or enable the combo bonus for all/any weaponskills - like Perfect Balance & SAM's similar ability - but for just the 1 following GCD (so skip Hard Slash or Q > SS > ADxX > Q > SS > ADxX etc)

or BS/Q could also extend BW/BP (#ripBP) like Delirium does, or just remove DEL's recast: giving DRK a Q/BS > DEL > Q/BS > DEL higher echelon rotation. Hope to see some added value. MP into Blackblood, Blackblood into MP. Simple concept, hope they go that route.

But more likely SE's 'solution' would be something like, "Reduced the MP cost of Unmend."

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I kind of feel like SE wants to lock us in our Tank stance. While we can occasionally change to our dps stance do deal some damage it's always a hassle since DPS seem to generate alot more enmity now which forces us back into our tank stance in dungeons.
By the time I have enough aggro, and used up my gauge to switch to deliverence and THEN build the gauge back up the boss is usally already dead. :|

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to be honest, i'm perfectly okay with this design. I've always viewed the dps side as more of a soloing/off-tanking thing and if the boss is being killed quickly enough that dps isn't a problem at all then i don't really see a need for all out dps from the tanks either :/

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Originally Posted by Reokotsae

to be honest, i'm perfectly okay with this design. I've always viewed the dps side as more of a soloing/off-tanking thing and if the boss is being killed quickly enough that dps isn't a problem at all then i don't really see a need for all out dps from the tanks either :/

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While that is the case, you can't ignore that there are a ton of tanks out there that enjoy optimizing damage, myself included. For us, 4.0 was a huge step back in terms of our enjoyability to play the role at a high level.

In contrast to what I said in the WAR boycot thread a few weeks ago, I am tanking a bit in Stormblood on the side, since it's a role my friends are in dire need of. It's become something that I utter loathe doing, and pretty much never will unless 2 DPS friends need something run for them. I'd pick DPS 10 times out of 10, queue times be damned, after having tanked for a huge bulk of Heavensward and ARR. SE should not be making decisions that ultimately push away people like me, given how rare tanks already are.

I really feel like a marriage of "tanks should focus on defense dominantly" and "tanks are able to maximize damage" is the only way to go forward. Right now, trying to stance dance just feels horrible.

People need to realize that we lost VIT as a stat for dmg. and we are leveling. You need to work harder to hold enimity due to this as we dont have a 15 ilevel jump from all the mobs.

Penalties for stance swapping are not that bad. You just need to plan around dumping your gauges when u stance swap, PLD can intervention or sheltron just before he swaps, WAR can use IB, upheaveal and such to dump their gauge as they switch. Remember WARS were the only class not to lose anything upon stance dancing in 3.0. It was grossly unfair to DRK and PLD whoi lost a GCD and MP to switch but now the field is leveled.

The DPS tank Meta is pretty much dead at this point and that's not a bad thing. This will require the DPS to actually do their jobs more and not rely on the extra output from Tanks and Healers to meet checks.

Remember WE ARE LEVELING. We do not out Gear content, nothing can be face rolled and we are relearning class systems. Things are going to feel clunky or not right because of the changes. Play get use to it and comment on it later. This isnt 3.0 we are evolving.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I kind of feel like SE wants to lock us in our Tank stance. While we can occasionally change to our dps stance do deal some damage it's always a hassle since DPS seem to generate alot more enmity now which forces us back into our tank stance in dungeons.
By the time I have enough aggro, and used up my gauge to switch to deliverence and THEN build the gauge back up the boss is usally already dead. :|

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All dps and healers now have enmity tools to help them not pull aggro. Usually if I toss out a few enmity combos I can comfortably go into sword oath for a good while before they start to creep up on me, and if they are paying attention and use their enmity dump it takes even longer.

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Originally Posted by Sipherous

Penalties for stance swapping are not that bad. You just need to plan around dumping your gauges when u stance swap, PLD can intervention or sheltron just before he swaps, WAR can use IB, upheaveal and such to dump their gauge as they switch. Remember WARS were the only class not to lose anything upon stance dancing in 3.0. It was grossly unfair to DRK and PLD whoi lost a GCD and MP to switch but now the field is leveled.

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I've got a pretty big problem with this particular part of your post.

Tanks are in dire demand, that much is obvious. For as long as FF14 has existed, tanks have been the hardest role to fill and always been the most in need. So why, if that is the case, would you deliberately go out of your way to make tank jobs LESS fun to play, by inflicting penalties on WAR's tank stance dance? Wouldn't it make more sense to instead go the other direction, and alleviate all penalties for stance swapping from all 3 tanks?

You say that the DPS tank meta is dead, but that'll never the be the case. As soon as tanks have enough survivability or a good handle on their cooldowns, they'll always try to optimize damage afterwards. It's simply more clunky now than it was in the past, with harsher penalties and a higher barrier to entry.

A lot of tanks really enjoy the play style of optimizing damage. Why would you make decisions that are more likely to push them away?

^ Sums up my feelings as a former career tank.

Ultimately what I would've preferred is if the mitigation and/or aggro control aspect were developed to be more rewarding than bare necessities required for a completion of a fight.

Essentially, if mitigating well or pushing more aggro would reward skillful play with actually impactful effects were designed into the game, I'd wager that "tanks would tank more". So as an example, if I mitigated a tankbuster with more than 50% HP, I would receive a 20% damage boost or something to that effect.

Make tanking rewarding and perhaps, it may please both the "turtle/defenserealtank camp" and the "mindlessdps/tryhard camp".

Aesthetics are there, but without the numbers to back it up and the horrendous gameplay changes (basically braindead) I frankly, lost my fire to tank. You know something is wrong when you don't even enjoy the leveling up and gaining of new skills of your once main class.

With regards to tank dancing yeah its cumbersome but manageable. What really annoys me about WAR is how Infuriate can't be used outside battle. I finally get why they did it after getting the Infuriate trait but I feel that it could be handled better. It would be op as they would be the only Job to have a full gauge on pull if Infuriate was used outside of battle so I get it. What I don't get is how Storm's Path finisher gives 20 gauge but Butcher Block and Storm Eye gives 10 respectively. This is considered a soft nerf to war as we are now forced to use our lowest dmg combo to gain more gauge. If they could change one thing about WAR its that all combo finishers give 20 gauge.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Regarding Bloodspiller/Quietus,

I do hope they think of someway to compensate for the GCD push and consequential MP punish.

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That's called "DPS increase"...