This is just appalling

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

As for your points, I disagree that you need to hit all of them. I don't care about most of the cosmetics or items in the cash shop. I don't follow the monthly updates to the cash shop (or however frequent it is?) I am simply frustrated that they have them in the first place. I am sure that I am in a minority, but again, I do exist.

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No one cares about what they put into the cash shop until they add something that person cares about. For some people, glamour is everything. These people have been complaining about Mogstation items since they were added. Square just happens to be adding more items people want, so now they are getting pissed too.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

SE isn't liable for poor spending habits. If you play within your means, spend what you set aside for you to spend- there's no reason to make this a notch against cash shop purchases. Everyone should know where they stand financially, and if you only just realized you spent thousands of dollars on a game unknowningly, you need to check your statements more.

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I never suggested they were. The part you quoted wasn't really an argument against the cash shop, but was simply furthering the discussion on how people view money. The person I quoted was talking about the equivalence of spending money on alcohol, and added that money is relative.

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Originally Posted by HPDelron

Square can lose "Loyal" customers for doing literally anything. Someone might quite because they dislike the design of dungeons, or the commitment to the tomestone gearing system.

They might quit because they dislike the story, or they revamped their favorite class.

If the only moves they should make are ones that alienate no-one, that's an impossible task because anything they could do (including doing nothing) might piss somebody off.

There's plenty of evidence from other games that cash shops like this are innocuous. WoW didn't see a massive drop off in subs because of the Rainbow Unicorn, it happened because they released an expansion with no good content.

Unless we're about to see a massive break with industry trend, no amount of fancy dresses or dances being sold at high prices will put a meaningful dent in the game's playerbase.

It takes a lapse in core content to scare off players, and the stuff in the cash shop just isn't core content. It's fluff.

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This reply shows a severe misunderstanding of my argument. One is a discussion of the product and the other is a discussion of the business.

As for the comparison to WoW, their cash shop is not nearly as harmless. I've seen very very few items added to it since Legion started, and in the same time, countless things have been added to FFXIV. Items purchased on the WoW cash shop are account wide, vs character wide. Further, you can actually purchase WoW cash shop items with WoW tokens (in-game gold).

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Originally Posted by Lycieus

No one cares about what they put into the cash shop until they add something that person cares about. For some people, glamour is everything. These people have been complaining about Mogstation items since they were added. Square just happens to be adding more items people want, so now they are getting pissed too.

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I was stating that I don't care about the glamours to show that you do not need to care about the products available in the cash shop to be annoyed with the cash shop. It's not a pre-requisite.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

The part you quoted wasn't really an argument against the cash shop, but was simply furthering the discussion on how people view money.

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My mistake! I thought you were insinuating it was on SE if players spent thousands of dollars on cash shop items by mistake.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

This reply shows a severe misunderstanding of my argument. One is a discussion of the product and the other is a discussion of the business.

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Your argument fundamentally seems to be that square is at some risk of a meaningful loss of players because of their cash shop items. If that isn't your argument why should square - or anyone care? It's a non-issue if that's the case. It only matters if it will have a meaningful negative impact on the playerbase.

If that is your argument my point stands: Cash shops items are fluff. They are dresses and dances and nothing that matters. Core content is what drives the game and sub numbers. If I'm wrong I guess we'll see the game dry up as folks see everyone in their fc chats go "I'm sorry guys, I had fun with you all but I'm quitting the game because square is charging too much for emotes in the cash shop. Best of luck. I'll be trying {INSERT_MMO_HERE} ping me on discord if you wanna meet up with me there".

We are in the land of speculation obviously. We'd need a crystal ball to know for sure. However I wouldn't be going out of my way to wager that scenario will come to pass.

Don't buy it. Problem solved. Next.

Much as I want the new set for Samurai, gonna hold off until Stormblood is actually out and hope that there's some other gear with this same or at least a similar aesthetic that's actually available to get in-game properly. If there isn't, and SE is set on only giving out "Far Eastern" themed gear in the Cash Shop... disappointed doesn't nearly describe how I'd feel.

If there's plenty of Asian-inspired outfits but just nothing else that includes sarashi like this set, oh well, I'll buy it cause I really want it. Disappointing but could be worse. But if it turns out that the only options for the Far Eastern aesthetic are NIN and SAM Artifacts, and the cash-shop stuff? That'd just be asinine.

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Originally Posted by HPDelron

We are in the land of speculation obviously. We'd need a crystal ball to know for sure. However I wouldn't be going out of my way to wager that scenario will come to pass.

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indeed, I am by no means saying that what I said will happen, but I am saying it could happen. It's the answer to the question of "what reason does Square have to not do this". Different companies weigh it differently.

For example, look at EA, you have BF1 and Titanfall 2. BF1 opted for the DLC approach and TF2 opted for the free DLC approach. Despite TF2 receiving praise for this stance, it seems pretty clear that BF1 has been more successful. In this example, your stance is absolutely the one that came to pass.

I would like to see more companies rewarded with loyalty for treating their consumers well, but perhaps it's just a pipe dream.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I would like to see more companies rewarded with loyalty for treating their consumers well, but perhaps it's just a pipe dream.

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Putting aside the fluff thing for a moment:

They're offering people goods those people want at price they're willing to pay. It's not mistreating customers to simply give them a chance to buy things.

Everyone who paid $25.00 for an outfit or whatever wanted that outfit more than they wanted $25.00. There's nothing shady or dishonest going on. They're arguably better off for having had the opportunity to trade in their cash for something they wanted than they would have been otherwise.

I paid square $200+ dollars for the collectors edition of Stormblood because I wanted the goofy swag that comes in the box. It is expensive goofy swag but that hardly means I've been mistreated. I get my goofy swag. SE gets my money. Me & SE both get what we wanted and neither of us did it at gunpoint.

At the end of the day I'm better off for getting the opportunity to spend my money on things I want, than I would be not getting that opportunity.

Am I as well off as I would be in some hypothetical universe where they sold me the goofy swag for $80.00 instead? No. However that hardly makes me some kind of victim here.

To the OP,

I don't understand all the drama.

Square Enix is a business. They want to make money.

From my perspective, it's a smart decision to sell glamour items and emotes because neither of these things affect game balance. Now, you may think the cost of an item is too high. Don't buy it. How is that different from the decisions you make at any other store? If you went into a clothing store and demanded a free pair of designer jeans as a reward for your loyalty, they'd laugh in your face.

The problem here is that you feel you are owed something beyond what you purchased. Square Enix provides a great game, consistent service, and has a fantastic relationship with its subscribers. They go out of their way to show how much they appreciate our patronage by giving us seasonal gifts and loyalty rewards for how long we've been a subscriber. They didn't have to do anything but provide the game.

So, please get over your entitlement and accept Square Enix has the right to sell whatever it wants at whatever price they want. Once something is up in the cash shop, it is our decision whether or not to buy it.

That's why these items are called optional.

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Originally Posted by HPDelron

Putting aside the fluff thing for a moment:

They're offering people goods those people want at price they're willing to pay. It's not mistreating customers to simply give them a chance to buy things.

Everyone who paid $25.00 for an outfit or whatever wanted that outfit more than they wanted $25.00. There's nothing shady or dishonest going on. They're arguably better off for having had the opportunity to trade in their cash for something they wanted than they would have been otherwise.

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I disagree. I understand your argument that they wanted that outfit for the price, but I disagree that it's not shady/dishonest. A subscription has expectations that it is inclusive. Further to that, many companies continue to provide unfinished games and sell the extra parts separately. This, to me at least, seems pretty shady.

Also, I'm not sure what you are referring to with "putting aside the fluff thing".

I just want to add that while I do find it shady, it's not really important. It's not important if they are being shady or dishonest, it is important if they appear to be dishonest or shady.