What's your opinion about the game's story?

Start of 2.0 was pretty good in my opinion.
Slows down pretty hard in the middle with Titan and Garuda, but games still new so whatever.
Picks up again towards the end of 2.0.
2.X patch story is all over the place, mostly it's just there tbh.
3.0 was pretty great, sucked a bit in places but overall it's a definite improvement.
3.X patch story is again a bit of a mixed bag. Wrapped up the expansion nicely though.

More thoughts...

I want to be surprised more by the plots. It seems everyone is in a mad chase to get their hands on some Allagan artifact that will become a world ruiner. I want that to end and for there to be new threats. Something we haven't heard of before.
I really loved how XI handled plots--and not to say XIV needs to follow their model, but I believe there were some good aspects to it. In XI, you had the Zilart (this game's version of the Allagan), and while Rise of the Zilart had the "stop an ancient race from destroying the world," once that story was played out, it was done. Future expansions would involve fighting a God, preventing a clash of two titans (Odin/Alexander), and battling through time to preserve your history (Wings of the Goddess). While there were some elements that were kept consistent, each expansion was its own coherent storyline.

I see and appreciate that that XIV is trying to create a consistent narrative and some overarching themes that last awhile. But I disagree with a lot of its approach. For example, Omega weapon now is apparently a danger, but we knew that in 2.3? It seems so bizarre to tease something like that so long ago, pre Heavensward, to now make it relevant, somehow. Or maybe it won't be? It is very tough to say. Why bring up Omega Weapon so long ago, to only have to reintroduce the thing to us again? Again, the game struggles to convey to me what I should care about and why.

There are also so many times where the characters take pretty crazy risks. WoL is sent through to fight Shiva and risks getting lost to the aether permanently. PERMANENTLY. This person is like, YOUR ONLY HOPE AGAINST ALL THE PRIMALS. And you are going to chance this person's death? What about ramming an airship into Azys La's forcefield? Doesn't that carry some significant risk?

The characters don't debate options, different courses of actions. It's like Alphinaud throws a metaphorical dart and wherever it lands, that's the option we're taking. And it's always something that really, someone in their right mind should protest and question the logistics of. But they don't. They just take the first answer that comes to them and go through with it.

I don't see the Scions as a great group of heroes. They are more like... a group of idiots who get lucky "just because." It is like SE has forgotten that struggle is important to telling a great story, and not just guaranteed wins.

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Originally Posted by Belisaire

The characters don't debate options, different courses of actions. It's like Alphinaud throws a metaphorical dart and wherever it lands, that's the option we're taking. And it's always something that really, someone in their right mind should protest and question the logistics of. But they don't. They just take the first answer that comes to them and go through with it.

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Just want to point out that at one point in 3.0 Estinien did call Alphinaud out on this kind of behavior, around the Aery I think.

It started to get interesting by the time I reached the Dreams of Ice chapter. That was when I really started getting interested in the story. It all went uphill from there, except for a few chapters that I thought feel short of expectation, but, hey, it happens.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

Personally, 2.0's story was pretty hit or miss.

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Problem with 2.0 story was that Coil questline felt more MSQ than MSQ itself.

To add to this.. Hildibrand quests are better written and much better animated than most of 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Belisaire

I don't see the Scions as a great group of heroes. They are more like... a group of idiots who get lucky "just because." It is like SE has forgotten that struggle is important to telling a great story, and not just guaranteed wins.

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The Scions lose a bunch though. The HQ gets invaded by Garleans, Thancred gets possessed, the Syndicate pressures them out of Ul'dah, Moenbryda is killed, Alphinauds GC turns on him and at the end of 2.X they essentially stop existing as an organization for the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Belisaire

More thoughts...

I want to be surprised more by the plots. It seems everyone is in a mad chase to get their hands on some Allagan artifact that will become a world ruiner. I want that to end and for there to be new threats. Something we haven't heard of before.

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I'll never disagree with more variety. But in Heavensward alone they have been way more of a backdrop. The MSQ is about a war with dragons, and behind the scenes are Ascians pulling the strings--the real threat of the overarching story, not the allagans who were also Ascian playthings-- the only relation to Allagans being that they are a major force in draconic history--something established in Coil of Bahamut.

Our current 24 man raid has us going up against the relics of the Mage War between Mhachi and Amdapori people. Its a similar plot structure to 'ancient people kind of are ruining modern Eorzea', but it is a different culture and its not a race to the artifact it's a race to the turn off the void they opened. Also no Allagans here.

Our current 8 man raid has us going up against a relic of the Sharlayan people brought to life by Goblins. Even it being a relic of anyone is up for debate given its recent revelations however. No Allagans here.

The Allagans are indeed involved in the Warring Triad series, however it's just as much about Meracydian culture and a bit of a retread over Coil of Bahamut and the origins of how Dalamud was made.

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I see and appreciate that that XIV is trying to create a consistent narrative and some overarching themes that last awhile. But I disagree with a lot of its approach. For example, Omega weapon now is apparently a danger, but we knew that in 2.3? It seems so bizarre to tease something like that so long ago, pre Heavensward, to now make it relevant, somehow. Or maybe it won't be? It is very tough to say. Why bring up Omega Weapon so long ago, to only have to reintroduce the thing to us again? Again, the game struggles to convey to me what I should care about and why.

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Heavensward had a LOT of story it had to go through, it would have been rushed and weak to have Omega Weapon be a side attraction to the Dragonsong War. I imagine they are bringing him up again because maybe he's going to be a major player in the 4.0 expansion, similar to Ultima Weapon and 2.0. Either way it would be even more wasteful to bring up Omega Weapon and get players hyped...only to never use him at all.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

The Scions lose a bunch though. The HQ gets invaded by Garleans, Thancred gets possessed, the Syndicate pressures them out of Ul'dah, Moenbryda is killed, Alphinauds GC turns on him and at the end of 2.X they essentially stop existing as an organization for the expansion.

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Its funny, people like to forget that just because everything's fine and dandy for us now, we haven't struggled. The WoL has also been defeated a few times in the game; the Amal'jaa outwitted us and thats why we wound up fighting Ifrit. We were again outwitted by the syndicate, we too suffer from every Scion's loss, and if Thancred didn't intervene when we were under the initial assault of the WoD, we'd have been owned hard. Not to mention our rather questionable decision to drink wine from a stranger.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Being aniti-science isn't the only thing Christianity was accused of that may or may not be false. Just saying.

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I dont want to start a religious debate, since this is not the place nor really that much relevant for the topic but there are some points that are kinda wrong about the catholic church especially in the middle age.
For example the church was not against scientific advance or education, Charles the Great even said that every cathedral should have its own school because education was important as the key to power. They may have made the advancement a little slower but they were never against it.

There was also never truly any evidence that people and especially the catholic church ever believed the world to be flat. It seems that this was only said after that period to make the middle age look bad and uneducated.

These are just two examples about some false information, at least if you trust All about History and other publications. ;) Any information could be wrong but I do believe that they take care to gather the right information or they would lose their reputation quite fast.

I wrote these just to show that maybe not everything bad truly happened and that its sad that SE really loves to often show so much of the believed bad side of the church or even something that is already shown to be wrong and yet barely show us some good side. You could have simply used the cleric to show that they take care of the poorer population. Maybe show some of them that stand by Aymeric's side..Yet all we get to see as main secondary NPCs are kinda bad guys..

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Originally Posted by Belisaire

The characters don't debate options, different courses of actions. It's like Alphinaud throws a metaphorical dart and wherever it lands, that's the option we're taking. And it's always something that really, someone in their right mind should protest and question the logistics of. But they don't. They just take the first answer that comes to them and go through with it.

I don't see the Scions as a great group of heroes. They are more like... a group of idiots who get lucky "just because." It is like SE has forgotten that struggle is important to telling a great story, and not just guaranteed wins.

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I do agree that they all too easily risk our life in this game. At least Alphinaud would go with us if he had the echo but at least all the other scions feel less like they would do that. Maybe I am judging them harshly but I sometimes get the feeling that they are quite alright with us doing the fighting and them getting information. There must be more people with echo out there that at the same time are able to fight..but (imo) we are only one WoL and fight alone all the time against the primals. But its not only about the primals..its about having to fight alone against Nidhogg, go alone (at least at the end) against Galearns like Gaius..while all the Scions stand outside waiting for us..I mean at least have them fight along side us when there is no primal there..especially with so many Scions that can fight quite well. Why exactly do we as the WoL and only real threat against the ascians, have to end a war? Why do we probably have to free Ala Mhigo? Why do we probably have to fight the Galearn?

I mean there are things that we do on our own like Void arc and all the other raids and I can understand that we are the one that will fight against Primals..but also throwing us at things that could be done by normal fighters too..what will they do if we die because of that? (I know its done so that we have some adventures/fights in this game but at least let them fight along side us for majore enemies or against the army..)

But I do believe that we do think about different kind of paths more and more. Especially Alphinaud did not want to believe that killing his friend was the only option to stop the dragon..and its seem with 3.4 even Urianger tried to go a different path and does not believe that fate cant be changed. So I think that this is the right way to go. I hope that they will choose this way for the future too because I do hate how in some kind of quests (crystal tower..) we never truly think about another option and that we just accept another sacrifice..

And I hope that one day the scions will be more active and dont just mostly react if the summoning is around the corner or already done..because right now I cant think about any action that they did to solve the problem permanently. I mean 2.x was more about throwing the WoL against the next primal of the week instead of trying to find a way to not have one the next week. They might not have the power to do this alone but I never really got the hint that they try to change the view of the city states (only example was Y'stholas argument with the admiral..but arguing like that wont change anyones mind..) Right now I dont really feel like the WoL truly needs the scions anymore. I got the feeling that with Ishgard we achieved way more when most of them were still missing than over all the time they were still complete..I mean hearing about another summoning of a primal, going there and slay it..thats not something you need an organization for..

I dont hate them but I also right now find them kinda useless. Single members might have helped us on our journey but as a whole organization they feel kinda useless..but the end of 3.4 gave me hope that maybe in 4.0 we wont be part of the scions that much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Its funny, people like to forget that just because everything's fine and dandy for us now, we haven't struggled. The WoL has also been defeated a few times in the game; the Amal'jaa outwitted us and thats why we wound up fighting Ifrit. We were again outwitted by the syndicate, we too suffer from every Scion's loss, and if Thancred didn't intervene when we were under the initial assault of the WoD, we'd have been owned hard. Not to mention our rather questionable decision to drink wine from a stranger.

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Well it was not truly the Amal'jaa that outwitted us, I mean we cant do much against traitors that tell on us and I dont think its healthy to see a traitor in any person and distrust them all. I agree we were outwitted by the syndicate and I sometimes want to hit my character on the head for not thinking..(that poor sickness "plot") I mean I am part of the alchemy guild and still was not able to realize that this might be poison..and just going to that place, taking it with us and never suspect that this might be a trap..after finding Wilfred and knowing that there is a traitor in the group...yeah that was IMO not really the best storytelling..at least I got the feeling like my character had no brain..(which is even more insulting as someone that has archanist/summoner as a main)

At the first meeting of the WoD we kinda were in a worse situation than them. We did not know them, did not really had the wish to fight them (they attacked us first) and somehow our echo vision did hit us harder and longer than the WoD...the second time we fight them we mob the floor with them. ;) Only thanks to the echo were they able to stand up again and yet we beat them three times..So I am quite sure that we would have been able to stand our ground in the first fight but plot demanded to have a nice scene for Thancred which made us look just weak again..

And about the wine. Well we as the players might have been quite alarmed after hearing that a barmaid had her own voice..but the WoL just went into a bar to get themself a drink which they got from someone that looks like a barmaid. I do believe that we are now going to just drink from our own flask. *gg* But at that time how should we have known that this woman was a fake barmaid?

I have nothing against being weak or failing something but I do dislike if the story forces this just for the plot, making the WoL look stupid with this and it just feels bad. It would be nice to finally be able to protect someone else in a cutscene instead of being the one that is protected..I mean how often does one of the scions and other NPCs jump in for our safety? Some even died for it..How about we jump in someones way, survive something that should be fatal thanks to our skills but at the same time get hurt and maybe let other characters finally realize that we are mortal too..They could have a nice cutscene afterwards showing the scions and others worrying about us and maybe in certain story fights after that we have a slight debuff thanks to the injury. (But nothing lasting like scars or something..or at least only as an option.)

So yeah that forced weakness/stupidity to get the plot done is something that I dont really like in FF14.

I don't know if it will help, if we discuss the story writing here, as I don't know if Yoshi-P said anything about changing the approch they take for this. In addition to that: It's fairly hard to write a compelling story, you either can or you can't. It could also be, that the story writers have pretty decent ideas, but their editors just won't agree with them. Sadly, there are many things to consider in a multi million dollar project.

Some spoilers ahead.

In addition to the many good points (character mimic, boring characters, mild plot), I would like to point out, that it is almost always a bad idea for an author to break his own rules. For example: I remember, as I first played the Heavensward main story, there was a quest where Raubahn slowly lost his health. I was stunned at how much HP he lost with each tick and quickly calculated his max HP pool. HP wise this guy would have been able to take the ultima weapon alone. And this guy had his arm cut off by some mere palace guards? This seems not very likely to me. There are several other occasions where I thought: "Not very likely..." but the post is already long.

One point I want to underline too is, that I really don't feel like the warrior of light is something special. Telling me I'm something special while I just have to go into a dungeon and see at least 3 other people who are also "special", I feel kind of trolled. Just scratch that and make it something else.