30 Minute Lockout for Leaving Roulette's isn't Working as Intended.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

When you quit a dungeon, you can still play the game, doing anything except from another duty.
If you AFK or disconnect, on top of losing time until your next useful duty, you'll also keep yourself from playing the game...and for what ? "Not losing time doing a duty" ?

Besides, if you stay inactive for too long, the game automatically kicks you, and that could count as "leaving a duty". And auto-running to stay active could be a wonderful testimony on how you're just an asshole to your group, who will have all the reason to report you while you're still in the duty.

I wonder how far people will go to purposely not playing the game ?

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People have alts and other games they can play play. Hell, you could just disconnect and watch Netflix for awhile. If you start counting disconnects as leaving a duty and penalizing people on that though, suddenly anyone that 90k's is taking a penalty. Given how often that actually genuinely happens, that's not really acceptable. I really don't know why people want harsher penalties anyway. If people want to leave, let them eat their half hour and leave. You're most likely better off without them anyway and there's always more people out in Duty Finder that are willing to take their place.

Dont you remember how it was in Castrum before we got kick vote?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

People have alts and other games they can play. Hell, you could just disconnect and watch Netflix for awhile.

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So, they're stupid enough to eat a 30 minute penalty to not lose 15 doing Steps Of Faith, yet they'll accept losing time by not playing the game ?
I think your underestimate their addiction :p

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If you start counting disconnects as leaving a duty and penalizing people on that though, suddenly anyone that 90k's is taking a penalty.

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Losing connection is not leaving a Duty. Staying inactive for the game to automatically kick you out of duty is. And again, waiting 15 minutes for people to kick you out of a 20 minute dungeons is pretty dumb, especially since you could end in another unpleasant dungeon the next time you register...

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I really don't know why people want harsher penalties anyway. If people want to leave, let them eat their half hour and leave.

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Because that penalty doesn't prevent douchebags from leaving a duty right away. Of course, they'll eat their penatly, but when you're a DPS who needs to wait for more than 30 minutes for a tank or healer to finally show up after a disband, you're the one eating their penalty.

Again, roulettes have rules and rewards. You don't play by the rules, you don't deserve the rewards.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Again, roulettes have rules and rewards. You don't play by the rules, you don't deserve the rewards.

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They are following the rules. They leave the duty and they get a penalty.. just because you don't like it does not mean the rules are not being followed.

I have to agree, Roulette's on average have been 25 mins or more wait time for me, even levelling Roulette which is what, mean't to help players leve (extra exp, etc..) ? Which is rather sad
But yes players tend to leave after queue is about ready to pop, which frustrates the heck out of me, like don't queue for something if you have no intentions on going in people, yaargh
1 Hr or 2 hr penalty should suffice, lol

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Originally Posted by Aramina

They are following the rules. They leave the duty and they get a penalty.

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Well, since there wasn't any lockout in the beginning, and that the exact definition of a penalty is when you don't follow the rules...no, they don't.
And what happens when people still don't follow the rules despite the penalty ? You increase the penalty.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Actually, please tell me it was a troll post, and I am just way to tired to see it. It has to be, because it is probably hands down the worst, and worst thought out, idea I have read on these forums.

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Nope, dead serious. People treat the idea of penalizing folks who get vote-kicked like it would transform everyone in the server into a drooling, maniacal troll. I don't buy into that cynical bullcrap for even one second. People, even on the internet, are by VAST majority, decent people. They want to succeed at an instance, and they want to help their fellow players succeed at an instance.

Would trolling using this feature happen? Would people sometimes be punished unfairly? Yes, absolutely. But it would be rare. Very rare. And it would serve to FINALLY eliminate one of the most horrendous abuses currently still existent in the game: Folks who afk, force disconnect, or misbehave to encourage a kick and avoid the penalty. This is much worse than a player who drops from an instance and accepts their penalty, as the players who remain are in just as bad a spot, but don't necessarily KNOW they're in just as bad a spot. Should they wait a while for the person to return, because it might be a legitimate d/c? Or boot them immediately, to start duty finder looking for a replacement. Whatever the case, they almost certainly won't wait a full half hour.

The kick system is broken, well and truly. It provides an escape from punishment for bad behavior - particularly ironic in a tool that was originally added in part to help punish bad behavior (removing abusive players from a group).

When you sign up for duty finder, you are committing yourself to the FULL duration of the run. Happily, it rarely actually happens that you'll need that full duration, but people seem to feel that they are entitled to a fast run. This is not the case. People whine and complain about "carrying" people but THAT IS WHY YOU ARE THERE. That is why you gain tomestone rewards. You are being PAID to help the others in your party succeed. No matter how crappy they are. No matter how they supposedly "refuse to learn". Any tool that allows an individual to skip out on this contract scott-free is a broken tool.

I don't think anyone will disagree that vote kick is a necessary tool. There are legitimate times when you really do need to remove someone from the party. So, apply the same penalties for abandoning the run when you get kicked for Harassment. And, when running an instance, be polite. Be respectful when other players don't play with the level of skill you'd prefer. That way, when you really DO d/c legitimately, the others in the group will think kindly of you, and won't select Harassment when they dismiss you. Additionally, if you DO get a Harassment boot, you'll have a nice, clean chat log to share with the GM that investigates your case.

The argument that you could get kicked unfairly so you don't get a chance to lot treasure is completely irrelevant to the discussion. This abuse is ALREADY a part of the system. Slapping a 30-minute duty finder penalty on top of it is adding insult to injury, true, but it's silly to argue that such a penalty would encourage this kind of behavior to occur any more than it already is. If the GMs aren't punishing treasure abuse of this kind now, then they need to step it up. If GMs are hiding behind the "different playstyles" blanket to avoid acting on this kind of abuse, it's already unforgivable.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Nope, dead serious. People treat the idea of penalizing folks who get vote-kicked like it would transform everyone in the server into a drooling, maniacal troll.

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It wouldn't transform people into maniac trolls.
It would make those decent people...still the same decent people so, no change here.
And it would make the existing maniac trolls even more powerful at trolling people.

In what world would it improve the situation ?

Again, you have to wait 15 minutes to be able to initiate a vote kick. Most of the time, during those 15 minutes, any half-decent party can clear any content in the duty roulette. Yet, people are still dumb enough to eat a 30 minute penalty instead of doing spending less time in the content they ended in.

To offer a counter argument- I have run into a couple of 8 man duties where I left because people were being EXTREMELY rude, and vote dismiss wouldn't pass because there were several in group together ALL being rude. This is the only reason I have ever left and taken the penalty, but in a situation like this- why should I have an even greater penalty? When talking about raising a penalty for something you have to think about the various reasons someone might leave a group and how it will affect everyone, not just the people that are abusing the system.

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Originally Posted by Oohlalaheals

To offer a counter argument- I have run into a couple of 8 man duties where I left because people were being EXTREMELY rude, and vote dismiss wouldn't pass because there were several in group together ALL being rude.

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That's a totally different issue. For your case, what should have happened is a report from you while you're still in duty, and a GM to look for it and take measures againt those people.

But, yeah, I'm pretty sure the report system is also very flawed. The simple fact that you can't directly chat with a GM is a big issue. And you could do that in FFXI, so no, it wouldn't give "far too much work" to them.