Tanks using their enmity combo while being OT

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Originally Posted by AI_wass

Or the WAR can forego a tiny amount of personal DPS in exchange for better raid DPS by letting the MT stance-dance and use their damage combos instead of their enmity combos.

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Good mts can do this anyway. If you start your pull in tank stance and are good enough at your job to keep the dps difference between you and your ot than this isn't an issue.

Butcher's Block deals 5.5x its damage in enmity. That's the equivalent of a 1,540 potency attack. In comparison, Fell Cleave is 500, Dart Arts>Soul Eater is 400, and Royal Authority is 340.

A DRK or PLD MT /cannot/ drop stance and still maintain aggro against Butcher's Block combo spam, while dealing optimal damage on top of that. The math just doesn't work out that way.

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Originally Posted by lawlHT

Good mts can do this anyway. If you start your pull in tank stance and are good enough at your job to keep the dps difference between you and your ot than this isn't an issue.

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It's not a matter of being "good enough" to hold hate. Nobody is sitting here going "Well gee golly, it's just impossible for me to keep hate over a Warrior in Deliverance using Butcher's Block and I don't know how to even do that!" Anybody with a pulse, a brain, and some fingers (and some of the more talented people who lack those things) can hold hate.

But to do that as a Paladin or Dark Knight requires the use of extra Rage of Halone/Power Slash combos, that are not required to hold hate over Monks, White Mages, Astrologians, or Warriors who are being more mindful of their threat. Rage of Halone and Power Slash are a Paladin and Dark Knight's weakest combos - every time one gets used, they are doing less damage than they would be if they were able to use a Royal Authority, Delirium, or (DA) Souleater combo.

The damage that a Paladin or Dark Knight loses from having to use Rage of Halone instead of Royal Authority, or Power Slash instead of Delirium/Souleater, is significantly greater than the damage that a Warrior loses from using an extra Storm's Eye combo instead of a Butcher's Block. No amount of "being a good MT" is going to change that simple mathematical fact.

It does not make sense for a Warrior to force a Dark Knight or a Paladin to forego 60-80 potency, so that the Warrior can gain 20 potency. Not even if the PLD/DRK is in their tank stance. Not even if the Warrior has Berserk up. Butcher's Block as an OT is only ever appropriate when it is not going to force the PLD/DRK to use an enmity combo in a place where they wouldn't otherwise be using one.

So basically throttle back their own dps so that the less capable tank can tank. The sheer number of ogcd's and constant buffs from using Dark Arts liberally should more than make up the difference for a dark knight, and Paladin has 3 moves in their standard dps rotation that cause increased enmity. I'm legit not seeing the issue here.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

So basically throttle back their own dps so that the less capable tank can tank. The sheer number of ogcd's and constant buffs from using Dark Arts liberally should more than make up the difference for a dark knight, and Paladin has 3 moves in their standard dps rotation that cause increased enmity. I'm legit not seeing the issue here.

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If you had two skills that shared the same cooldown, and one did 20 potency and the other did 50, with no additional effects, which one would you use?

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Originally Posted by Crater

If you had two skills that shared the same cooldown, and one did 20 potency and the other did 50, with no additional effects, which one would you use?

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That's irrelevant, none of a pld's dps rotation includes enmity gen moves that share a cool down.

ETA: Since you asked, that would depend on what the additional effect of the former is, the current state of the raid, and whether there's any actually tangible benefits to using the former than the latter.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

This. If they are in deliverance and ripping hate from you doing this combo, either you are doing it wrong, or their gear is far better than yours and they should be MT in the first place.

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^This.....

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That's irrelevant, none of a pld's dps rotation includes enmity gen moves that share a cool down.

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Just answer the question.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

It might be a good idea to read more then 2 words of what I've said in this thread. I've already pointed out precisely when it's acceptable to Storm's Path.

Course, then you might actually have to up your comprehension abilities to understand.

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Except my post had nothing to do about the uses of SP. It was all about potency loss.
In fact, every post I made in this thread was about that. It seems that you should take your own advice for yourself.

Since it seems that you are the one with understanding issues, I'll explain what I said. Again:
I don't care about the uses of Storm's Path utility, it's not the point. All I'm saying is that if you use BB and that forces your MT (DRK or PLD) to do an enmity combo, it'll be a potency loss for the group.

So, when you said "A good war OT uses Butcher's block to keep up high DPS.", I basically answered with "not if it forces a potency loss for your MT".
Come on, it's not that hard to get.

That's already been answered way back in page 1.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

If they are in deliverance and ripping hate from you doing this combo, either you are doing it wrong, or their gear is far better than yours and they should be MT in the first place.

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It's a dps loss for the under geared tank to be MTing anyway.