WHMs and their toolkits

That makes 0 sense. With PoM your cast of Esuna would be borderline instant and your GCD less than 2 seconds. So no, it wouldn't take 5 seconds. You lose one, VERY short GCD. Get over yourself

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

If you get Bleeding in the second boss of Neverreap, while I'm applying my DoTs and Presence of Mind + Stone III spamming, you will probably bleed a lot, because I'm not wasting 5 seconds of my cooldown just to Esuna you.

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Will result in a dead DPS. DoT debuffs have priority over DPSing.. and Esuna, without PoM, is already fast and isn't a 5 second GCD..

Plus... you can put Esune just before PoM
it won't kill you, and it will save the DPS

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Will result in a dead DPS. DoT debuffs have priority over DPSing.. and Esuna, without PoM, is already fast and isn't a 5 second GCD..

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I will ~OBVIOUSLY~ not let the DPS die, and judging that I have Tetra waiting to be used (since most tanks barely need any heal on that battle), yes, the DPS can wait.

Heh sorry, you just come across as one of those healers that doesn't consider the lives of DPS. One thing I have learned well, when someone is low on HP, time is not on my side.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Heh sorry, you just come across as one of those healers that doesn't consider the lives of DPS. One thing I have learned well, when someone is low on HP, time is not on my side.

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I usually don't panic when I have someone at low HP. I tend to panic when I'm the one with low HP (like when I'm happily eating orbs at A4 and a wild Perpetual Ray hits me for an unexpected damage).

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Originally Posted by winsock

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Again, not saying that Asylum is useless, but it has competitors so it is not quite fair to judge it in the same light as DS / PoM.

Consider these options:
A) medica II -> cleric stance -> dps
B) medica II -> Asylum -> cleric stance -> dps
C) Asylum -> cleric stance -> dps

If option A is sufficient for a scenario, why bother with B or C?

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look at it the other way around
if C is sufficient, why bothering wasting mp and an GCD for A or B?
sure that is rarely the case in aoe scenarios but its still true. especially when it comes to single target scenarios

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Originally Posted by deos

look at it the other way around
if C is sufficient, why bothering wasting mp and an GCD for A or B?

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Because most of the time, you have no way of knowing beforehand if C will be sufficient by itself. For example, you don't whether xyz ranged dps is actually going to stay in the bubble to be healed.

But yeah, if the more reliable heal works, IMO, Asylum is a small waste of time and cd.

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single target scenarios

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Similar scenarios, with the same choices as before, substitute medica II for Regen. Again, if A is sufficient why use B or C?

All I'm trying to show is that there are numerous healing scenarios where not casting asylum is actually a small optimization, and that not casting asylum shouldn't be judged the same way as not using DS or PoM, because Asylum competes with other skills.

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Originally Posted by deos

look at it the other way around
if C is sufficient, why bothering wasting mp and an GCD for A or B?
sure that is rarely the case in aoe scenarios but its still true. especially when it comes to single target scenarios

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I'll just link you to this part of the discussion: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3392561

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Originally Posted by winsock

Because most of the time, you have no way of knowing beforehand if C will be sufficient by itself. For example, you don't whether xyz ranged dps is actually going to stay in the bubble to be healed.

But yeah, if the more reliable heal works, IMO, Asylum is a small waste of time and cd.

Similar scenarios, with the same choices as before, substitute medica II for Regen. Again, if A is sufficient why use B or C?

All I'm trying to show is that there are numerous healing scenarios where not casting asylum is actually a small optimization, and that not casting asylum shouldn't be judged the same way as not using DS or PoM, because Asylum competes with other skills.

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I have to ask how you feel not using Asylum is a small optimization because I can't see it. This is what I'm thinking in my head (assuming all abilities prompt a 0.5 second ability delay)

Asylum ---> DPS
DPS begins at 1 second (0.5s animation delay for Asylum + 0.5s animation delay to activate Cleric Stance)
100 potency / tick for 24s
0 MP consumed (can make argument that you gained 884MP since Asylum = 2 Cures)

Regen --> DPS
DPS begins at 2.5 second (waiting for Regen to complete GCD, activate Clerics during the GCD)
150 potency / tick for 21s
619 MP consumed

Divine Seal + Regen --> DPS
DPS begins at 3 seconds (0.5s animation delay for Divine Seal + 2.5s GCD for Regen)
195 Potency / tick for 21s
619 MP consumed

Regen + Asylum --> DPS
DPS begins at 2.5s (waiting for Regen to complete GCD, activate Asylum + Clerics during the GCD)
250 Potency / tick for 21s + 100 potency @ 24s
619 MP consumed (can make argument you gain 884MP since Asylum = 2 Cures)

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If we're looking at small optimizations:

Asylum alone allows me to begin DPSing faster than Regen by itself and is more MP efficient overall (impossible to beat 0 MP efficiency though).

If you need to Divine Seal + Regen, you might as well Regen + Asylum for a higher potency HoT and slightly faster transition into Cleric Stance.

If damage from pack exceeds how much Regen + Asylum can heal for, I can at least stay in Cleric's Stance longer due to higher potency HoT total versus Divine Seal + Regen.


Not trying to be negative but I am genuinely curious about your train of thought in this regard and would like to be enlightened about your thoughts.