Shields & Parrying in 1.19

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Originally Posted by Jinko

To tank effectively on MRD you still require many of the GLD skill, at least if you wana do a good job.

I see no reason to parry when you have a shield, that being said they do need to increase either the frequency of how often gladiators block (give them a trait that increases block rating) or the percentage they mitigate when they do block (give them a skill that increases the amount of mitigation done when blocking)

Maybe they have something like this planned for Paladin, I can't see them adding a job specifically designed for tanking and not have skills in place to make them good at it, isn't the MRD job going to be DD ?

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Actualy tanking on MRD the only GLD skill I "need" is Sentinel to perfom succesfully, whilst if I'm tanking on GLA I want more skills from MRD(warmonger, defender II, disorient II, Intimidation trait) set to tank efficiantly.

Heres the part I find illogical with the balance, as you say MRD(while theyre designed to be able to offtank as well) main pourpose is to DD, GLA is to tank, MRD is superior in both thoose aspects in almost all situations.
And while MRD can always easily slip into a DD role for a PT GLA can't realy perfom well as any other role then the tank.

Having both tried with STR builds and using the 5% block trait, they have done nothing for having any block procs on Ifrit.

For us to have to wait for 1.21 and the job system where GLA gets PLD to get a fix is imo unreasonable, playing an underperfoming class isnt fun at all.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

To tank effectively on MRD you still require many of the GLD skill, at least if you wana do a good job.

I see no reason to parry when you have a shield, that being said they do need to increase either the frequency of how often gladiators block (give them a trait that increases block rating) or the percentage they mitigate when they do block (give them a skill that increases the amount of mitigation done when blocking)

Maybe they have something like this planned for Paladin, I can't see them adding a job specifically designed for tanking and not have skills in place to make them good at it, isn't the MRD job going to be DD ?

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Yeah, I know I need skills from both to truly be the most effective at either. And to be 100% honest, the role of tanking is more important to me than the class I use to tank. But it really doesn't make sense at all for the lowest damage melee class that has a shield and the most health and defense to not be the most desired and effective tank. To me that is an issue that should be addressed either by making GLA a more desirable tanking class, or increasing their damage output so they can fill other roles satisfactorily.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

Having both tried with STR builds and using the 5% block trait, they have done nothing for having any block procs on Ifrit.

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and you've tried adding upper tier STR materia to all possible gear? I haven't fought Ifrit yet, fyi.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

and you've tried adding upper tier STR materia to all possible gear? I haven't fought Ifrit yet, fyi.

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As far as Ifrit goes block rate is not really relevant because you can only block his single-target regular attacks. He switches to unblockable cleaves as his regular attack early on and only goes back to single-target while Infernal Nails are spawned for the 1 minute prior to Hellfire. You're far better off using Foresight and Diversion to mitigate him when he uses the single-targets and not waste your action points/trait slots/damage on it.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

and you've tried adding upper tier STR materia to all possible gear? I haven't fought Ifrit yet, fyi.

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I don't know how much STR it would take but I've tried out different gear setups with STR materia attached where it was possible (I have been using cheap STR materia III and low tier IV tho but the difference is like 15-18 STR total) I've noticed absolotely 0 blocks happening on Ifrit, blocking on beastmen bosses etc all seesm to funtcion as it should (shield skills not as good as they where pre 1.19 but at least they do proc).

After noticing how much elss damage I could take on MRD is simply gave up on GLA as tank for Ifrit for now, hopefully can get any dev insight if Ifrits attacks are not meant to be blocked (silly since they easily can be parried), if this is a bugg or if theres some unknown conditions for block procs on boss mobs now.

The shileds I've used are Vintage Kite Shield, the Uldah Shield and the new Kite Shields, maybe it could be a problem with thoose specific shield types? Would love to her more about this issue.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

As far as Ifrit goes block rate is not really relevant because you can only block his single-target regular attacks. He switches to unblockable cleaves as his regular attack early on and only goes back to single-target while Infernal Nails are spawned for the 1 minute prior to Hellfire. You're far better off using Foresight and Diversion to mitigate him when he uses the single-targets and not waste your action points/trait slots/damage on it.

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If something is unblockable, wouldn't it follow that it would be extremely difficult to parry as well? Following that logic, I don't see an issue with the mechanics, but rather with strategy. People have beat him, so he's not impossible.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

If something is unblockable, wouldn't it follow that it would be extremely difficult to parry as well? Following that logic, I don't see an issue with the mechanics, but rather with strategy. People have beat him, so he's not impossible.

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I think you're missing the point. Since his only blockable/parryable attacks are few and far between and better handled with guaranteed/nearly guaranteed moves like Foresight/Diversion, there's absolutely no purpose for a shield. GLA is worthless. That's what people are upset about.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I think you're missing the point. Since his only blockable/parryable attacks are few and far between and better handled with guaranteed/nearly guaranteed moves like Foresight/Diversion, there's absolutely no purpose for a shield. GLA is worthless. That's what people are upset about.

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Oh I know, it started with 1.18 when GLA enmity management skills went down the pooper. GLA is somewhat more usefull in regular but difficult open world battles. I'm not saying something shouldn't be done about it, I guess I'm just trying to rationalize it.

I completely agree with this thread, and particularly the last 2 pages. There is a huge ballance issue in regards to MRD vs GLA tanking. Whether it be AoE or Single target tanking I think the common ground for both tanks should be in enmity skills how effective they are, and fast enmity build up. The trade-offs should be dmg vs dmg mitigation. So that we have 2 tanks that both can hold hate well (single or multiple targets), GLA has great dmg mitigation and good dmg, and MRD has good dmg mitigation and great dmg. Something along those lines is what Id like to see. I've said it before, if GLA is gonna be left behind, then SE should just let me know so I can just let it go and focus on MRD tank.

If nothing else PLD better be something special, because if its not, then all we have is the NEW best solo class, that is a decent hybrid DD/healer.........

For the love of God SE, fix this sh*t!!

Trying to find where the good damage in gladiator is. Riot blade may do good damage, but it pacifies you so you cant use any other WS for like 30 secs. Plus every other WS that takes all tp does way more damage without pacifying. Mrd > Gld at damage and AOE tank and pretty much equal at single-target tank. If storm's path wasn't made mrd-exclusive It wouldn't be an issue, but you have to go try storm's path sometime and realize the power of mrd tanking. GLD only has a little more HP going for it, but far less damage and now broken blocking and no parry...